49 Responses to “Presto, Change-o, DARVO: Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender”

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  1. Jimmycr

    Abusers typically employ different types of denial. Perhaps you’re familiar with some of the following ones:

    * Outright denial or gaslighting. “That never happened.”
    * Minimization. “It wasn’t that bad.”
    * Amnesia. “I don’t remember doing that.”
    * Redefinition. “I have a bad temper, so you shouldn’t upset me.”
    * Projection. “You’re abusive and controlling. You hurt me.”
    * Conversion. “I did wrong, but I’m a changed person and won’t do it again.”

    This is the absolute cornerstone to the abusive behavior. If I have learned anything during my experiences, I have learned the above traits are the bedrock of the abuse. All of these tactics are employed with precision. You can bet that once the abuser finds the one that works best, it will be employed the most. All of it is crazy making behavior. If you start to think things are “not right” and you know you are not crazy, you need to document, document, document. Believe me, the abuser hates documentation. Why? Because then you have taken away their ability to create “revisionist history.” Revisionist History is abuser class 101. They must pass this class to move on to next levels. They master revisionist history so they don’t have to move on to denial, minimization, amnesia, redefinition, projection or conversion. Once you take away the ability for them to create revisionist history, the fun really begins. Good luck and if you think you are nuts document, document, document.

    Jimmycr

    • jonsid

      And there is also of course distraction. That’s the one where when they don’t want to discuss, explain why or even admit something happened they throw in some totally irrelevant critisism, insult or abuse about you, your friends or your family that is GUARANTEED to start an argument about something totally different. Outcome, an argument about a totally different subject, they don’t have to explain themselves and you’re the baddy again.

      • Jimmycr

        Absolutely. How could I forget that one. That is abuser 101 also. Divert the attention to something totally irrelevant to the situation at hand.

        Jimmycr

  2. david

    “Kitchen Sinking” is a way of someone justifying their anger, perceived persecution and to feel better about themselves through the exploit of assaulting a person with events or misdeed (real or imagined) from years past. In a disagreement, it keeps the present issue from being addressed, overwhelms the individual on the receiving end and concentrates things in the past (of which no one can change or control).

    • JPJ

      Wow.Yes. Once we have been broken down by fear,the abuser can start to get away with making up stories.Then through by constantly repeating the false tale as though it were true,we may even start to believe it is true.
      There are some good articles here that do address this issue as well.

      • jp

        The really skilled manipulators know that the best Kitchen Sinking attacks will include a combo of real things you did wrong in the past (to remind you you’re flawed and give a hint of authenticity to their attack), a few accusations containing a kernel of truth but exaggerated or distorted (you slammed a door once, but now you “always slam doors”, this shames you further but also gets you questioning your powers of recollection, i.e., were there other times I slammed doors but don’t remember??), and one or two outright fabrications which you know are BS but you’re so defensive about the made up stuff you figure you’ll let them slide.

        It’s not worth defending against the Kitchen Sink.

  3. B Experienced

    Dear Dr.T:
    I have figured out the Bull Roar of many a Cluster B by watching for patterns and mentally notating them or writing them down. I checked out what they said when I could with reliable sources. Every Cluster B has a distinct patterns according to what they find inferior in themselves. For example, if they are jealous or envious of someone with a higher education they may say they have a degree as an Occupational Therapist or a Nurse. If they are bitches or bastards they will set it up so you become the bitch or bastard so they don’t look so bad. They are not as good liars as you think and there is always a stupid side to them. Even in their insanity and craziness there are always patterns and plenty of bad behaviours to chose from to discredit them. The more you can get on them the merrier it is for you.

    The other part to this though, is that you must keep a poker face and never, never, reveal what you know to them or confront them with it. You hold your hand until you are certain you can win and are safe. I used to call my method A Reversed Psychopath Approach because they excel at knowing your weaknesses and fears. If you have a need to lash out or want to hurt them with it, you really have to stop it. It is normal to want to let them have it with truth that is irrefutable in self defense. Time and circumstance is well worth the wait. Don’t be surprised if they still hang on to their lie. However, you will be vindicated. Stand your ground and do not bend for any reason. Never say anything to the contrary to appease them or get them off your back. Not changing the truth is evidence of you not being guilty so they try to get you to do this.

    • JPJ

      Dear B Experienced,

      Thank you for the wonderful post.It is full of support with brilliantly calming tips on how to weather the storm.
      Along with many others here,I will take to heart these words of wisdom and stay the course until we can live in peace again.

      • B Experienced

        Dear JPJ,

        Thank you!

        One of my greatest passions in life is to help people with the Cluster B’s because they are prevalent. I see the need for people to have calm brought into their lives as well as supporters who have dealt with these devils successfully. I have been competently studying them for over 30 years- some formal education and years of self continued studies. I lived with them as well. I have seen homicide attempts made by them while I was living with them. They can lead double lives very comfortably as well.

        You can get yourself killed if you don’t know what and who you are dealing with. I can’t and won’t ever support anybody living with a Cluster B for any reason. I have competent knowledge,experience,judgment and a conscience! You may get long honeymoon’s that can even feel like Heaven, but these people always want to go back home to Hell.

        It is a neurological fact that the less emotional a human is the more thinking ability you will have. Remember that their goal is to destabilize you because they did not get a lot of validation growing up or get back at you for not doing so. They will tear the hair of your head to get it if they see fit. It is all about a warped and disturbed way of getting love and feeling valued. It isn’t your job to validate them if you don’t want to or meet their needs and wants either. They have to learn to meet most of their needs by themselves as all adults must do. Sound easy, no way with a Cluster B. In regards to the Cluster B’s you can never be armed enough and you must have a wide variety of skills to disarm and deal with them individually.

        I have noticed that a lot of woman are getting charged more frequently and people are seeing through their masks.

        • JPJ

          The timing is amazing that the latest article her is about Dr Phil.( I have not read it yet.) No wonder there are no shelters for abused men. He is going to take awareness to the issue back a few steps unless there is a strong reaction to his stand.
          Where is Oprah on this issue? That would be interesting.
          Once again,thank you “B” for the great post

  4. ron7127

    My dad was employed this technique all the time, the changing to a different topic, especially one where he could personally attack you. I could never figure out how a discussion on politics could morph inot my being cut from the basketball team or my academic failings.
    Funny thing is, he was supposed to be a good trial lawyer. Yet, he needed to employ these tactics to defeat a 15 year old in an argument. One would think he would have been embarrassed at his lack of debating skills.
    I can see these personal attacks coming a mile away , now. When they start, I just walk away.

  5. laura

    Hi Dr. T.,

    Always great articles here. I’d like to propose another: something to do with the men who decide they can no longer cope and opt to commit suicide. Here’s my reason:

    It happens. I lost a friend on Jan 25th for this very reason. His ex took the kids, both under age 10, moved 3hrs away and rarely let him see the kids. She got a new fiance, new house, new career (all in a little over a year)… He was going through the legal process to gain access to his children. Couldn’t handle it any longer, felt hopeless and here’s the kicker…took his life out front of the lawyer’s office.

    For any men out there thinking of going that route: DON’T! You will forever rob your children of even the slightest potential of building a relationship with you even when they become adults.

    For any batsh*t crazy women out there thinking it’s best to rob a man of his children. DON’T.

    We need to change the system. It’s killing people. Literally and figuratively. These children don’t have a father anymore. The alienation was too much.

    Take care everyone and if you know a man going through this hell these women put them through…even if they seem to be handling it and are ok…give them a hug. A BIG LONG HUG and give them all the support you can muster. They need it. I can’t hug my friend anymore.

    L.

    • infojunkie

      my husband and I were just discussing the emotional breakdown that led to his decision to leave his BPDex and 3 children. He stated clearly that if he hadn’t found the courage to leave, his only only option would have been suicide. He is such a loving and wonderful father, I can’t imagine his children not having him in their lives. He chose to stay for way too long because of the children, but ultimately he realized that if he didn’t leave, he might risk losing them completely in choosing to end his own life. It shouldn’t be this way – family law should support fathers and not turn a blind eye to dysfunctional mothers.

      • TheGirlInside

        It’s a damn crying shame that anyone (probably more than we realize) gets to the point that they think their only option is to do away with themselves…staying in an abusive relationship is slow suicide.

        It enrages a woman like me, to watch a good man go to waste…someone who deserves to be appreciated and shown his value rather than taken to the brink by someone who hates themselves! As we say here, UFF DA!!

        If he stays long enough, the children may grow up and leave…but God forbid, a grandchild comes along…instantly, another ‘hook’ for an abuser!

      • never again

        When I left, I knew it was only a matter of time before I either died of a stroke from the stress, or walked in front of a train. Either way, I was going to be dead if I stayed with her. That was too big a price to pay for loving her.

        I even said to her once “I love you so much I’d take a bullet for you. As long as you aren’t the one pulling the trigger.”

  6. mikeveal

    my wife called the police on me once and when they came they saw a wild yelling crazy wopman and a calm sad man.they told her the only one with a problem here is her.that was devestating to her.
    sad

  7. James

    Never play cards with a man named Doc. Never eat at a place called Mom’s. And never sleep with a woman has more troubles than your own.

    Don’t say no one warned you fellas.

  8. Ming_on_Mongo

    Interesting article and comments! My sense is that one of the powerful components behind the DARVO phenomenon in the case of NP’s and BP’s, is the tremendous “gift” them seem to have for detecting the emotional needs and vulnerabilities of others, perhaps not unlike the ability of other “predators” to sense the weakest of the herd. So that when they’re pitching their “story”, it seems to be crafted especially for the “needs” of the intended audience.

    Meaning that just as they were able to first “tune in” on our own emotional needs and “become” whatever we were seeking in apartner, so too, their “victim” tale, is often designed to appeal to the desires of the listener…. who may have unconscious needs of their own to be a “defender”, “protector”, or may have been victims themselves of abusive parents, siblings, past relationships, etc. (giving them an added “interest” in this “story”)!

    BTW, it’s also this interesting predatory “talent”, combined with their tendency for thoroughly ignoring “boundaries”, that’s been suggested as an explanation for the somewhat “messy” instances of therapists and other professionals (with otherwise respectable careers), who suddenly became “involved” with their clients. And which not surprisingly, usually ends very badly!

  9. Jason

    I putting this here for lack of anywhere else. I’ve posted before and stated that my wife was a borderline borderline. To put it another way, I’ve had a friend who is well versed in psychology (and who has cluster “B” personality relatives) conclude that my wife is boderline, but our marriage counselor doesn’t want to go that far. Yet. Whe fits the description, but doesn’t go as far as many, if not most, of the BPD women talked about here.

    Several months ago, my wife conceded to go to a marriage counselor. The first joint session was a disaster, during the second we had major breakthroughs. Since then, our relationship has improved remarkably and my wife really is trying. There have been some setbacks, but nothing major.

    Last year, just before the worse part of our marriage, my wife suddenly started gaslighting me to our family and friends. It was me finding out about this that precipitated the confrontations that led to counseling. In a private session, our marriage counselor said straight out that my wife had been preparing the groundwork for divorce, though my wife won’t admit to all of it.

    The problem now is one of our adult daughters. Without going into revealing details, something happened and she got mad at me. Today, she sent me an email that was filled with the typical early twenty “my life problems are your fault” things, but with a lot of remnants of my wife’s gaslighting from last year mixed in. Worse, my daughter is now trying to gaslight me on a specific event that happened two or so years ago. I think she revised the events in her mind due to things my wife said.

    I wrote an equally blunt email back, but haven’t sent it (I’ve learned to sit on emails like this for a few days.) I don’t know if I should. I don’t even know what most of the exaggerations [I said that deliberately; my wife rarely lies, she just twists events to make her look good and, at the time, me look bad] were or how they were said. Above all, my daughter doesn’t know just how misleading some of those things are and how they’ve perverted her view of many events. Even though I’m able to prove the falsehood of some claims, most become he said, she said and my wife has conveniently forgot some of these (to be fair, I think she was often just spewing and probably didn’t remember what she said five minutes after she said it.)

    At the very least, I want to defend what honor I have. However, to do that, I’m going to have to say some pretty mean, blunt things.

    I suppose the bottom line is that my wife did a damn good job laying the foundation for a divorce where I’m the bad guy. How do we undo that? Can we?

  10. Peter

    I like to think of the EX’s verbal technique like a martial art of blocking and counter-punching. I call it DENY-OPPOSE. Every statement I made was denied and opposed. For example I say, “you are being unreasonable” Response: “No I’m not – you’re the one who is being unreasonable”. Deny-Oppose was such a common pattern that I learnt to NEVER MAKE A STATEMENT. I was able to talk to her without ever saying anything. I had to basically just reinforce and agree or reflect what she said. It led to a more peaceful relationship but I couldn’t keep on doing it forever because a part of me was being denied and “killed off” inside. In the end I decided to get out.

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