Dr Phil and Domestic Violence: He Just Doesn’t Get It
Oh, Dr Phil. . . From time to time, Shrink4Men community members email to let me know that they’ve sent links of my articles to the Dr Phil and Oprah shows because they believe the material here is important and should be seen by a wider audience. I thank them, but tell them not to be surprised if the topic of female perpetrated domestic violence and parental alienation continues to be ignored by these two talk show titans. Oprah is unlikely to ever go there, for obvious reasons, and Dr Phil. . . well, who knows what reasoning lurks behind that moustache.
Dr Phil describes the January 10, 2011 episode, Afraid of My Husband, as a case of he said-she said. The wife, Sonja, says her husband, Lawrence, is abusive while he says he’s just reacting to her abuse. Fair enough, most high-conflict domestic cases are one partner’s word against the other’s, which is why I encourage men and women in these situations to document, document, document. In the digital age, it needn’t be a case of he said-she said.
The show begins with a request for help from Lawrence’s sister, Krishina:
Dear Dr Phil,
I’m reaching out to you to appeal for your guidance, assistance and intervention. My brother and sister-in-law are in a marriage that is in unimaginable shambles.
Both of them are so angry about so many things.
They are immensely disrespectful to one another and allow their children to consistently hear their horrific exchange of words. I am beyond hope sometimes in thinking that this monstrous situation can ever be changed.
Please note, Krishina is describing bi-directional abuse; she describes bad behavior from both parties. She denies knowing about any physical violence in the relationship. Dr Phil then plays some audio of the couple. Here’s the first thing the audience hears:
Sonja: I’m afraid of my husband. Lawrence isn’t the man I married. We fight all the time.Lawrence: Sonja can argue 24/7.Sonja: My husband will always start the fight.Lawrence: She’s very combative and she instigates a lot of fights. She’ll push my buttons.Sonja: Lawrence calls me every name in the book. Idiot. Bitch, Fat ass. He’s yelled F— you to me in front of the kids. I’ve been called a c—. A f—ing c—.Lawrence: Sonja’s called me a loser. A f—ing a–hole.Sonja: Lawrence is violent. Lawrence has punched holes in our armoire, doors. He has broken skateboards.Lawrence: Sonja’s broken two laptops, a big TV. She gets very violent. She’s hit me multiple times.Sonja: When I’m violent towards Lawrence, I’m trying to protect myself and the children. I explode and I’m violent towards him.Lawrence: I’m not violent. I’m just responding to what Sonja’s actually doing.Sonja: When I was pregnant, he twisted my arm and forced me to the ground and I just sat there and I’m like, ‘Do you realize what you just did? You just threw me down and I have a child in my stomach,’ and no response. Nothing.Lawrence: A total fabrication. I didn’t throw her down when she was pregnant. She gets in my face and pokes me. She’ll knock your head off. She’ll spit in my face. I’ve had to run away and lock myself in a closet just so I can get away from her.Sonja: Once when we were at a hotel…Lawrence: She grabbed a laptop and threw the laptop against the wall…
The two of them have different descriptions of the altercation that ensued. Sonja insists that Lawrence kicked her in the stomach and pushed her to the bed. Lawrence states that Sonja got in his face because she wanted his attention while he was on the computer. He tried to leave the room after she broke his laptop, but she blocked his egress and he pushed her to the bed in order to get away from her. The police report states that Sonja had red marks on her chest and that her shirt appeared “pulled and stretched” and that Lawrence had red marks on his chest as well and a cut upper lip.
Dr Phil questions Lawrence and he admits pushing Sonja was wrong and that kicking her would’ve been wrong, but maintains that he did not kick her. Dr Phil does not ask Sonja if it was wrong to throw the laptop against the wall. He does not call her on her behavior throughout the entire episode.
Dr Phil asks the couple to stand up and points out their size difference because, of course, someone who’s smaller in stature couldn’t possibly abuse someone who’s bigger despite ample research that proves otherwise. Gotta love that reasoning—never mind the fact that Lawrence had a cut lip and that Sonja admits she instigated the altercation by destroying his property and blocking the doorway when he tried to exit.
Sonja accuses Lawrence of being a control freak and of “pestering [her] for sex.” She states sex with her husband feels like “a job” and that she thinks he “isn’t appreciative enough” when she does agree to have sex with him. She even claims that he raped her one night as she slept. Dr Phil does not challenge her on this. I’m a sound sleeper, but I’m pretty sure I’d wake up during the act unless I was passed out cold on sleeping meds. In other words, I don’t believe her rape claim. Lawrence denies this calmly and matter of fact-ly as opposed to Sonja who becomes indignant on more than one occasion. An example of DARVO, perhaps?
Sonja admits to her abusive behaviors; Dr Phil says nothing.
If you don’t want to watch the entire episode, click and drag the YouTube embed below to 17:01 on the counter. Sonja openly admits that she has spit in her husband’s face, kicked a hole through their big screen TV (she smirks and suppresses a laugh when Dr Phil mentions this particular incident), has broken Lawrence’s laptop computer not once, but twice and that she gets in his face to make him listen, so much so that Lawrence has shut himself in a closet with his feet bracing the door to get away from her.
Sonja admits to hitting, kicking and punching her husband in the chest, arms and stomach. She claims she is violent towards Lawrence because he is violent towards their children and still Dr Phil says nothing. Yeah, because you teach children that violence is wrong by engaging in more violence. It wobbles the mind.
Question: If you were living in fear of your partner, would you strike him, spit in his face, get in his face, chase him into closets and break his property or would you be tiptoeing around him so as not to set him off? Something doesn’t add up here. When I’m afraid of someone, I try not to provoke or deliberately antagonize the person, but that’s just me. How about you?
embedded by Embedded Video
YouTube DirektDr Phil Afraid of My Husband
The couples’ son holds both of his parents accountable; Dr Phil says nothing.
Lawrence describes how Sonja undermines his parenting. When he tries to set limits with the kids, she tells the kids they don’t have to listen to their father. Essentially, Lawrence is frustrated by his wife continuously undermining his parenting and he expresses his frustration by being hard on and physically rough with the kids. For example, he tells his son to leave the kitchen because he’s not doing his homework after being asked several times to do so. Lawrence becomes frustrated and physically propels his son out of his chair by his shoulder.
Lawrence says he feels bad about this and owns that his behavior is wrong. Sonja is never asked if it’s wrong for her to undermine her husband when he tries to set reasonable limits and consequences for the kids. Given Sonja’s behavior toward Lawrence, I’d be willing to bet she behaves in a similar fashion towards the kids when they don’t listen to her, that is, if they dare to disobey her. Dr Phil never asks these questions, however.
Go to 22:29 to hear the couple’s son describe what goes on at home. Notice the boy attributes abusive behaviors to both parents equally, states he wishes his parents wouldn’t put him in the middle and that his mom talks to him a lot about why she and his father fight. This is most likely an indication that Sonja is parentifying her son and possibly attempting parental alienation—at least their son’s words raise these potential red flags for me. Dr Phil doesn’t explore this, however.
Dr Phil tells the couple the potential consequences of exposing their children to their ongoing conflict and violence.
At 24:50, Dr Phil lists the possible consequences of exposing kids to abuse and violence. He makes some good points until he says the following: “These kids will be aggressive in their relationships. The girls will be aggressed against and he is likely to become an aggressor.” Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Dr Phil, just you stop right there.
It’s a coin toss as to which child will become the aggressor and which ones will become the aggressed. The boy has seen his mother attack his father and his father defend himself against his mother. The girls have seen their mother physically assault their father. Why is the boy destined to become the aggressor and why are the girls destined to become the victims? Utter poppycock.
Granted, I think it’s a given that these kids are going to be screwed up for years to come because both of their parents are dysfunctional and engaging in a mutually abusive relationship, but Dr Phil’s prediction is biased. I think there’s a very strong likelihood the daughters will grow up to be aggressors who play the role of professional victim. Way to perpetuate a false stereotype that paints all men as potential abusers, Dr Phil.
Dr Phil tells the husband his behavior is abuse and, in the same breath, describes the wife’s violent behavior and provocations as a “relationship issue.”
Dr Phil, in no uncertain terms (26:03), calls Lawrence out for his abusive behavior, which I believe is largely a dysfunctional coping mechanism he employs when confronted with his wife’s own highly aggressive, confrontational, abusive and violent behavior. Then, in what I can only describe as one of my biggest “WTF, Dr Phil?!” moments ever, he minimizes and justifies Sonja’s reprehensible behavior as a relationship issue:
Now I didn’t put labels on this before. I just wanted to get the facts out [*the couple gave contradicting stories, but remember, Sonja admitted being physically violent on numerous occasions, so much so that Lawrence has hidden from her]. Let me put some labels on this now. [To Lawrence]: What you’re doing is abuse. It is domestic violence. It is physical abuse. Mentally, emotionally and physically, it is abuse. Just what you have admitted to is abuse. There is no question about it.
And you say, ‘Well, what about all of what she does?’ That’s a relationship issue. When we’re talkin’ here, we have abuse issues and then we have relationship issues. You say, ‘Well, why can she do it and it’s okay, but I can’t and it’s abuse? She does it—no problem. I do it and I’m an abuser. It doesn’t seem right.’ There is an imbalance of power here. You are bigger. You are stronger. [To Sonja]: What you’re doing, you should not be doing. That’s a relationship issue.
Wrong, Dr Phil. Sonja’s behavior is domestic violence, too. It is equally abusive and just as wrong. It doesn’t matter that she’s physically smaller than Lawrence.
Dr Phil then tries to put words in Lawrence’s sister’s mouth, Krishina, by saying, “Isn’t it true you’re afraid of your brother?” (27:33). She corrects him and Dr Phil is condescending toward her, which seems fitting, if not ironic, since the topics are power imbalances and abuse. Check out the look on Sonja’s face when Krishina describes both partners as “bullish.” Priceless. Dr Phil continues to beat the “power imbalance” drum by citing their difference in physique again. Um, that’s not a power imbalance, Dr Phil; it’s a body size difference. It’s not the same thing.
There is a struggle for power in Sonja’s and Lawrence’s relationship, but it’s not what Dr Phil thinks.
Sonja seems to want absolute control of her husband and the relationship. She uses verbal and physical violence and the kids to try to exert her power over her husband. Lawrence doesn’t want to be controlled and seems to fight back in unhealthy ways and, yet, Lawrence is portrayed as the abusive villain in this situation.
I think it’s healthy for a person to push back against behavior like Sonja’s. If she got in my face the way she does to Lawrence, I’d tell her to back off and knock it off. So, if I, as a woman, said, “Back off!” and shoved Sonja in retaliation to her shoving me, would it be abuse because we’re both women or would it be a “relationship issue” because we’re both women? Would I be the abuser if I’m a couple of inches taller than Sonja? What if she’s taller and heavier than me? How would Dr Phil define that?
Dr Phil tries to explain the difference between abuse issues and “relationship issues”(28:37):
Lawrence needs some help and Sonja needs some help. We are at two different levels here. Because of the imbalance of power, what a man does in a relationship to impose his will can be an abuse of power and control. What a woman does in a relationship is a relationship issue. It is not an abuse issue here.
[To Sonja]: You may be too controlling. You may be one of those people who likes to get in somebody’s face and get it to a point that may not be the best problem-solving skills that you could use. And I want to give you some different coping skills. [To Lawrence]: But she does not have the ability to isolate you and exercise power and control over you. And you do have that ability with her. Do you get the distinction? [Lawrence tries to respond, but Dr Phil talks over him.] We have to hold ourselves to a different standard, Lawrence. Do you agree or disagree, Lawrence?
In the above statement, Dr Phil unequivocally states there is a different set of rules for men and women when it comes to abuse. Dr Phil appears to believe that it’s not abuse when a woman tries to impose her will through physical force and verbal abuse, but it is when a man does the same exact thing. It wouldn’t be surprising if the average home viewer interpreted Dr Phil’s postion to mean that it’s acceptable for women to be violent and emotionally abusive toward men, that men cannot be the targets of abuse because they’re men and, therefore, physically stronger and that women cannot be guilty of abuse even when they admit to physically assaulting a man. The most Dr Phil seems willing to acknowledge is that Sonja’s behavior is inappropriate, which is a gross understatement and just plain wrong.
Lawrence tries to answer Dr Phil’s rhetorical question (29:35):
I do agree to a certain extent, but I think what happens is I tend to back down. Maybe I’m not going about it the right way, being the father figure in the house, but in reality, I find myself running away from Sonja 99% of the time. Running to the car, sleeping in the car, you know, just trying to get away from the arguments.
Sonja interjects:
The car is actually his tool to isolate me. He takes the car numerous times and leaves me with nothing.
No, Sonja. The car is where Lawrence goes to escape from you. If he were using the car to isolate you, he would lock you in it and throw away the key.
Dr Phil and Sonja then reveal that Lawrence has a gambling problem (scratch tickets and online poker). Lawrence admits that he has a problem, says he uses gambling as an escape from Sonja and as a cry for help that he wants her to hear. This is duly ignored by both Dr Phil and Sonja, lest we forget who the one and only victim is here.
Sue Else, President of the National Network to End Domestic Violence, chimes in.
In the next segment (32:21), Dr Phil brings on Sue Else, president of the National Network to End Domestic Violence. She rattles off a list of Lawrence’s alleged abusive behaviors (remember, Lawrence flatly denies Sonja’s rape allegation and many of her other claims), observes that his violent behavior is escalating and becoming more severe and that it makes Sue fearful.
Ms Else then trots out the old chestnut, “Love does not equal fear.” Ms Else ignores the fact that Lawrence stated, more than once, that he is afraid of his wife and has hidden from her, which Sonja herself confirmed as true. Ms Else does not address this inconvenient fact nor does she address Sonja’s own admitted violent and abusive behavior. Else’s fear is exclusively for Sonja and herself.
Dr Phil jumps in (33:22) to remind us that, while Sonja’s behavior is “inappropriate,” it’s still just a relationship issue; not abuse:
[To Lawrence]: What’s happening with you is different because of the imbalance of power and I’m trying to convince you of that, but I’m getting nowhere. I can see that I’m getting nowhere. This situation needs a hero and you’re the best candidate here. I’m just trying to tell you, just man-to-man, that what you’re doing is not right.
Lawrence: I do need need a lot of help. That’s why I’m here.
Dr Phil: Are you acknowledging anything I’m saying? I mean you blame this on her. You even say your daughter is smart and knows how to push your button, but it can’t ber fault. It can’t be your son’s fault. It can’t be your wife’s fault. The only person you control is you. And you have power that you have to manage in a relationship. And if you abuse the power, you abuse the relationship and everybody in it. That’s what I’m trying to tell you, you have to be better.
[Lawrence asks Dr Phil what he needs to do.] You have to be willing to say, ‘I will never put my hands on my wife or children in anger again ever no matter what. That’s where you start, right there. You just don’t ever. Just say, ‘I will not accept that from myself, character-wise. I am a better man than that. I will not do that.’ [To Sonja]: Do you get that? And you should not settle for that for yourself or for your children. [Lawrence should not accept or tolerate that from Sonja either, but Dr Phil is selectively mute on this counterpoint.]
Dr Phil perpetuates a dangerous double-standard.
Dr Phil states that abuse in a relationship is an absolute deal-breaker (35:44). I agree. However, Sonja’s behavior is also abuse. It is not a relationship issue—whatever that is, although, from what I can tell, it appears to be double-speak for “abuse” when the woman is the perpetrator. He tells Lawrence he needs to be the “hero” by deciding if “[he] wants to be happy or if [he] wants to be right” and that [he] needs to “rise above it.” Essentially, Dr Phil is advocating that Lawrence tolerate and not react to Sonja’s abuse. He advises Lawrence to not only accept her abuse, but to accept it unquestioningly and unflinchingly.
Now, imagine Dr Phil giving the same prescription to Sonja. It’s unthinkable and it’s unconscionable that he basically tells Lawrence it’s his job, his responsibility, to rise above Sonja’s abuse and take it. Wrong, wrong, wrong. It’s Lawrence’s job to set healthy boundaries with Sonja for both himself and his children. If she continues to abuse him and drag the children into it, he needs to rise above it by removing himself and his children from an unhealthy situation instead of sinking into a mutual race to the bottom.
*Please note: Lawrence asks for help and guidance several times throughout the episode. He admits his behavior is wrong. Sonja never really admits her behavior is wrong. She says she wants help. What she really wants is help “fixing” Lawrence because, naturally, her “relationship issues” are Lawrence’s fault. She doesn’t need to change anything about her behavior.
Dr Phil enables Sonja’s scapegoating of Lawrence by telling her that she just needs some better “problem-solving skills” and “coping mechanisms.” It’s okay for her to blame Lawrence for her bad behavior, but not the other way around. Furthermore, while Lawrence states that Sonja provokes him and that he allows her to push his buttons, he acknowledges that it’s wrong when he responds physically. Sonja just makes excuses for her behavior and takes no responsibility for her own actions and Dr Phil enables her. The twisting of reality and propaganda that Dr Phil perpetrates in this 42-minute episode is staggering.
What Dr Phil should have said.
Abuse is wrong. Initiating abuse is wrong and responding to abuse with more abuse is wrong. You both have issues.
Sonja, you’re no innocent victim. I don’t care if Lawrence isn’t giving you his undivided attention or obeying all of your commands. You have no right to lay your hands on him in violence nor do you have the right to destroy his property.
Quit putting your kids in the middle. Quit undermining Lawrence’s mutual authority as a parent and take responsibility for your own abusive behavior. Just because Lawrence married you does not mean you own him or have the right to control him. That is an unreasonable expectation.
Lawrence, you may need to accept the fact that your wife has control issues and she may not be able to change. She won’t even admit she has a problem, which is the first step in the change process. You have a right to be an autonomous being. You have a right to equal input on how your children are raised. You have a right to respect, love and affection. You may need to realize that your wife just wants a submissive lackey even as she grows to resent you for being a submissive lackey.
You also have a right to defend yourself, but let’s face it, as a man, if you defend yourself from physical attacks by a woman, even to just push her away so you can escape, you might get arrested. Therefore, continuing to live with a violent woman increases your risk of being incarcerated, whether you retaliate with force or not.
Don’t take your frustation with your wife out on your kids. One of the parents needs to be a grown-up and act responsibly and, given Sonja’s apparent inability to do so, you’re going to have to be the grown-up. You may need to get a good divorce attorney who understands high-conflict cases and sign those divorce papers your wife uses to control you by playing on your fear of abandonment or some unfounded sense of obligation or commitment.
Jan Brown, founder of the Domestic Abuse Helpline for Men and Women, posted an article about this Dr Phil episode on the DAHM Blog that includes responses from Dr Phil’s fans on his own forum, many of which express their disappointment in the way he dealt with this couple.
Lawrence, if you’re reading this, your wife’s behavior is also abuse and you deserve help and support; not one-sided condemnation. You ARE better than that and you do need to hold yourself to a higher standard because, clearly, no one is going to hold your wife to a higher standard and your kids need at least one healthy, functioning parent.
Shrink4Men Coaching and Consulting Services:
Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.
96 Responses to “Dr Phil and Domestic Violence: He Just Doesn’t Get It”
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Reading about this makes me glad we don’t get TV in my house. I would have been furious to see this kind of ignorance perpetuated.
I have a TV, but do not watch Dr Phil. I received 4 separate emails about this show, so decided to check it out. I didn’t expect much from Dr Phil, but I honestly didn’t expect this. It’s weird. You kind of go into a trance while you’re watching the show. I didn’t notice how strongly he is trying to indoctrinate people into his belief system until I read the transcripts I did of the dialog. Reading it in black and white, makes it clearer somehow—at least for me.
Prime example of an abusive relationship where the abuse seems to go both ways, but she gets to play the victim. I have never liked Dr. Phil. He’s nothing but a fount spouting pop-psychology who happened to make it big riding on the coattails of Oprah. I will read this post – but this doesn’t surprise me a bit. Of course, if it were his wife assaulting him, he may change his tune.
Wonder what he would say to his son(s) if he found them being abused.
Karma…
My guess is he’d tell them the same things he told Lawrence and to do whatever they have to do to keep from landing on TMZ.
It’s easy to understand why Dr. Phil says what he says. Wouldn’t want to alienate your key female demographic viewing audience by taking the wrong side and have ratings go down – that’s worth millions.
You hit the nail on the head!! It will be a long,long,long time before these two ever try to upset their stay at home audience. Once again,the almighty dollar wins out over the health and minds of people.
I hope it’s not as mercantile as that. I’d like to give him the benefit of the doubt and attribute it to ignorance, but perhaps I’m being naive.
I suspect that it may actually be just that mercantile, although not consciously so and the lack of consciousness probably cuts both ways. Here’s what I mean:
>>>As you said, he just doesn’t get it. He probably really doesn’t. That doesn’t mean he isn’t appealing to a huge audience, he is – it IS what they want to hear, but he doesn’t really get it.
When my older son hits my younger son I do give him a similar lesson. I ask if its worse if he hits me or if I hit him. He QUICKLY gets that: worse if I hit him. Then I ask if I ever, ever hit him. He says “no”. Then we go through why this reasoning applies to his little brother.
But the adult male/female thing doesn’t fly, otherwise Dr. Phil is basically telling us that scrawny men are OKAY in his book if they beat women. Adult = Adult, with the full volley of responsibility all the long way. Dr. Phil doesn’t get it, but his audience is happy to share in his limited reality.
>>>The audience that likes this isn’t examining. Frankly, not many of them will. I think we have to accept that something like 30% of the American audience, male and female, left and right, DOES NOT DO re-examination, or even examination. They just believe and reason with their feelings — which is basically what Dr. Phil is instructing them in doing, the whole thing is a giant exercise in guided emotional reasoning.
Having said that: the glass isn’t just “half empty” (or 30% empty by the guesstimate I just gave). Having kept the company of a mentally unhinged, abusive female who is an adult who is absolutely professional at persuading people, ESPECIALLY MEN (but women included!) to treat her like a helpless 15 year old girl, I also happen to keep the company of many adult females who are responsible, who hold down jobs, pay bills, take care of their kids and who, exposed to this behavior of my ex, find it reprehensible.
But what is more: they also find it reprehensible that people let her get away with it—especially that men do.
I find that encouraging. I think women are largely ignorant of a dynamic at play that isn’t really women’s fault. Men—often in positions of authority like Dr. Phil—literally shame other men when other men do not kowtow to the “please treat me like a fifteen year old” mentality of some women. But these men like Dr. Phil seem to have an unconscious radar that detects women who are offended by their behavior and they keep it completely silent when women are around. As soon as a woman who might be inclined to defend an abused man leaves the room, the GUY TALK starts and that talk is about what an a–hole you are for failing to have sufficient sympathy for the poor girl/woman who, even though she is 30/40/50, is for some reason held to expectations befitting an early adolescent.
Part of the solution is for men to wise up to this and make sure that responsible, adult women are hearing what men say, so that women can turn the shaming around. Dr. T’s piece here is important and fits the bill exactly, basically sets the standard. Men need to invite this in their personal lives wherever possible to turn the tide.
I’m not so sure, since Dr. Phil’s audience, both in the studio and at home, is mostly women, and they seem to be eating this up with a spoon.
Perhaps Dr. Phil’s audience is drawn from the 30% or so, but I think most people will find a show that tells them that all their problems are somebody else’s fault and that they’re victims of abuse is going to be appealing. I have to guard against that temptation myself when reading this site.
Actually, I think it is really horrible that his audience eats all this up like a sweet spoon of baby food. I have resisted the idea that this is a majority of them, but I am naive once again.
There is an ocean of people trying to feed their little hurt egos at all costs and everyone else’s expense.
Like Diogenes, searching for a human being in the crowd, I am wondering if there is one.
Dr Phil is worthless. I have looked at his show off and on for the past few years and he consistently portrays the male in a relationship gone bad as the chief problem. The double standards that exist in society are enough but he goes on to add insult to injury. I guess Dr. Phil figures that a man is the bigger and more dominant sex so he should stand there and take the punishment from a psycho wife or girlfriend.
Last week while at work, I was dispatched to the emergency room in reference to a domestic violence assault. I walked into the ER where I met with a man who’s face looked like something out of a horror movie. This man’s wife had gauged his face with her nails and when that wasn’t good enough, she picked up a hickory stick and began to beat him in the the head and arms. Since this crime occurred in another jurisdictin, I did the report and notified the oher agency. It was treated as no big deal, these things happen from time to time. I would venture to say that had that been a female with the level of injuries that guy had, an unmarked patrol care would hhave been hard to find,
I have a good 30 lbs on my supervisor…yet, somehow she still wields bullying, abusive power over me. Hmmm…wonder how that works in “dr.” Phil’s world! In his eyes, she right. I have the bad attitude (even though everyone who has ever worked for her has gone to supervisors and the employee concerns program, and every other avenue to get help for being bullied / abused -AND- even though NO ONE else I’ve ever worked with or supported in my role has suggested that I have a bad / unprofessional attitude).
Yup! Must be me!!
Argh. That is such a common situation. Most HR departments end up enabling these types—even when they have a folder full of complaints. It’s maddening.
Thank you “Burnout 10″…..
Is “Worthless” a supporter of health care reform or a supporter of repealing
the Obama moves to protect all people.
As a front line health care worker you are the expert on what is going on.
And yes…Dr Phil is truly worthless.
Doctor Phil is a large and imposing pompous ass. He’s a bully, and you can see this characteristic no matter the subject. Further, if one were to believe the tabloids, he has many problems of his own. Specifically, he likes da ladies. No better way to be big dog to the frustrated- bon bon eatin’- guchi wearin- SUV drivin- 2.3 children man abusin shrews out there! It compensates quite well for that chrome dome big gut blowhards lack of any measure of style- or attractiveness. I wouldn’t be surprised to find he owns several pairs of pantyhose.
“You may need to realize that your wife just wants a submissive lackey.”
In the same way that Oprah has found a submissive lackey in Dr. Phil.
Oprah’s agenda for the last 3 decades has been subtly anti-male, masquerading under the pretense of promoting self-esteem and self-actualization for women. The basic premise is that for every women who has dealt with misfortune, there is a male villain at the root of her problems. There are no men of quality in Oprah’s world. (I would not describe Dr. Phil as a man.)
Oprah and Dr. Phil are simply playing to the cheap seats — Oprah’s core of unquestioning followers. Introducing the concept of female abuse to her personality cult would be anathema. Should women-as-abusers ever gain traction in the mainstream media, Oprah and Dr. Phil will be the last ones to jump on the bandwagon.
What would be really radical is if Oprah were to read real-world testimonials from male victims of abuse on her show, but she reverses the gender references to make it sound like the stories were told by women. The clucking and gasping from her studio audience would be deafening. Then, just before the credits roll, Oprah reveals the ruse, and that the descriptions of domestic violence came from male victims. The look of stupefaction on the faces of her predominantly female audience would be priceless.
Won’t happen.
I do not mean to minimize Oprah’s (or any other woman’s) experiences, but I have found the attitude that all men wear devil’s horns to be quite common among female survivors of sexual child abuse – which Oprah does readily identify herself with this group. There has to be a point where the said female realizes that it’s not ALL men that have gone bad. Not EVERY man is el cucuy and every relationship that goes bad is not ALWAYS the part of a man gone bad.
Abuse goes both ways. I have seen women abuse men. I have seen the disabled abuse the non-disabled. I have even seen teenage children abuse their parents. Females have been sex abusers and boys have have been on the receiving end of that.
It’s appalling that she can stand in front of everyone portraying herself as the picture of a healed and whole individual and perpetrate this ruse. It’s even worse for Dr. Phil (who is supposed to be a licensed psychologist) to pedal the boogieman male myth as healthy mentality like a snake-oil salesman offering to cure cancer.
Some men DO abuse women. It’s a real problem. It shouldn’t be played down. However, it shouldn’t be played up either – and certainly not to the detriment of a partner who is also being abused.
I agree with far too much of that.
And I am a “female survivors of sexual child abuse” with one hitch. A woman did it. And that’s all it takes to be ignored by those people.
Catsmith9
I have known 2 woman whose Mother sexually abused them. I figured that most people wouldn’t suspect that and that there were many more out there. I am sorry that you got a double whammy.
My gripe is that psychologists assume that you will abuse if you were abused. As if you can’t figure that out yourself and really aren’t screwed up and didn’t have a mind of your own as a kid or develop empathy. Their fundamental assumption is insulting and just as bad as people believing woman don’t abuse. It is prejudicial and unfounded.
I have known many people who were sexually abused, psychologically, physically abused and never hurt anybody and were able to handle more than most.
It wasn’t my mother who did it (although my mother is not very affectionate, and the abuser took advantage of that to the point I convinced myself it’s be a better life for me if she *was* my mother…)
She violated your vulnerability which is heinous. I hope that you realize the abuser’s ploys now and that you have disentangled the lies. Again, I am truly sorry this happened to you.
I would love to sit in a room and chat with Phil regarding what is really going on here. Seriously – can people be so blind?
I always felt he was a quack and for me this proves it.
I lived in a shelter for four months after leaving my AXH (NPD). After a few weeks of being there and seeing numerous women and children come and go, I learned to tell in a matter of *seconds* which women showing up on the doorstep were truly abused and which were just milking the system.
People who have been abused are gun-shy and timid; they tend to run away (like Lawrence) from the violence, and only react out ‘abusively’ when cornered / tortured/ feel their or others’ lives are at stake. They are appreciative (almost overly so) of small kindnesses, as they have been emotionally starved for years. They are on the verge of tears quite often. They feel helpless, and hopeless, they get depressed, and get that lost look in their eyes, not knowing what to do…they become numb sometimes, going through life just trying to make it through the day.
Someone milking the system is indignant, hostile, haughty, and shows up like a Queen Bee, expecting to be waited on, and as though the rules just simply don’t apply (kind of like an abuser). They lie cheat and steal, and get pissy when confronted on their behavior. They deny and get in your face when you call them out or clarify expectations that they are to follow the rules. They yell and get angry when asked to leave / get confronted.
Dr. Phil, with all due respect, take some continuing education classes and throw away your DSM from 1950.
My Cluster B XGF acted just as you described and played the victim role flawlessly when in front of other people. When she was alone with me, however, she switched into the “indignant, hostile, haughty, and shows up like a Queen Bee, expecting to be waited on, and as though the rules just simply don’t apply (kind of like an abuser).” She could be an Academy Award Winner with her acting. I’m happy that you developed an intuition to accurately detect who were the abusers of the system and who were the valid claimants of abuse. I’m not convinced it is that easy.
Dr. Phil “Quickdraw” McGraw http://www.toontracker.com/huck/quickdraw.htm often does more harm than good, IMHO.
This is spot on TGI. I did training and worked at a DV shelter during my MSc program. After awhile, it’s fairly easy to tell which women were milking the system and playing a game as opposed to real victims. Ture victims are grateful for any assistance you give them; while the others come off as entitled.
Very very true, TGI. Couldn’t agree more on your observation of the difference between the fakes and the real.
I’ve twice been attacked on the streets (by strangers – once by some career criminal and the second time in 2008 by a crazy drunken man who had had prior brushes with the law and this one slammed my face with his fist in an attempted sexual attack move on a dark street. Thank goodness another pedestrian came to the rescue.) But the point – is because of this I do not classify an entire gender as ‘violent and abusive.’ Doing so is Ridiculous and irrational. These were isolated attacks, and a normal person has the objectivity to not generalize. And after the first week when the wounds were fresh, I do not even talk about the incidents because no self-respecting woman likes to throw her real or imagined wounds as some claim-checks to pity. If anything, we become more introspective and try to heal and forget about it. Or find logical explanations – in my case it triggered to read up medical books on sociopaths.
On the other hand my NPD sister – who btw is a petite woman – in a fit of jealous rage (because I’d grown out of my geeky looks and was picked out for print modelling on the side in my early 20s) had taken a heavy brass vase and tried to hit my face to damage it. Thankfully I turned and the blow came on my shoulder where I still have a mark to this day. My dad luckily intervened and got the vase out from her hand, as she continued attacking and would have broken my face. (yes – it has taken me a very long time to write this out this being the first time, and being very private it was very very hard for me to discuss this with anyone except my parents and for years I suppressed the depth of the hurt and trauma through minimizing my own feelings and placing a facade to hide the abuse I faced from my sister as I didn’t want to spoil the family ‘image’) Today, I feel far more pain on remembering the attack from my own sister, than from two strangers on a street which is forgotten, but seeing her size no one would guess. She terrorizes her 6 ft. husband too.
Regarding Dr. Phil – his and O’s show (despite a few good things they have done – I give them that) are glorified versions of claim-checks to pity-parties for women. All of O’s ‘friends’ are symbols of ‘enshrined mediocrity’ that real life professionals squirm to see. A Cornell Med surgeon friend of mine groans at the cheesy way her Dr. Oz gallops around in surgeon’s scrubs on stage. Same with Phil – he is a hem-kissing quack – that puts real psychologists to shame. Oprah never brings smart, talented, trained woman architects or engineers (if she so cared for women who truly slogged in life) – but promotes every kitschy gay interior decorator – the kinds who think a 1 year course in ‘decorating’ has made them ‘architectural gurus’ (Bah!).
Same with the anti-science moron Jenny McCarthy, the crazy Susan Sommers, and O’s own promotion of quacks and pseudo-science bs like ‘the Secret.’ Has she ever brought in Hillary Hahn (the smart-beautiful-grounded violin genius) or Danika McKeller (the math-whiz-former-actress)? No. She promotes only a certain insecure type of women and men who are part of the ‘Operation Wussification’ brigade. She will never ask truly accomplished and truly brainy and rational women for expert advice on her show. (I’ve seen this amongst radical feminist groups too – they promote only a certain ‘type’- with who they feel some sinister sisterhood, and while gushing over alpha-males even as they bash the beta-males, leave out the smart-but-feminine truly objective women.) In authentic design circles – since I work as an architect – Oprah’s tastes in her shows and ‘experts’ are seen as the epitome of glorified kitsch and fakeness and a need for complete control – a ‘softer’ talk-show version of Martha Stewart(who according to Oakley’s book has NPD.) In fact in authentic circles of science and art, ‘Oprah-worthy’ is a self-explanatory term used more as an insult to genuine intellect, not a compliment. But someone who is so powerful in the world that Her hem needs kissing to stay in business (as even author Jonanthan Franzen who’d refused to be on her show first finally conceded.)
I respect Oprah certainly for what she has done with her own life and how she made it on her own, but I have little respect for the kitsch, pseudo-science and packaged mediocrity as well as non-objective views and omnipresent claim-checks to self-pity-as-an-art-form she and her circle has promoted through her ‘message’ to millions, and the open preaching of wussifying men – to convert the stalwart American Man from the iconic Clint Eastwood into the ‘so-in-touch-with-your-Feelings’ uterine Dr. Phil. I call it – taking good real robust coffee and advocate turning it into mochastrawberryfrappuchino.
I’ll pick Judge Judy over Oprah any day – someone who states facts without the goo and frills, and actually states the truth.
Here: Newsweek says it better: http://www.newsweek.com/2009/05/29/live-your-best-life-ever.html#
You handled it well and did the right thing. It is okay to heal in private and not walk around bleeding. Normal people do that.
People almost expect a big drama and trauma to interfere with your life because they can’t handle it. That turns me off. I do best on my own in dealing with any pain I have. I always have. Everything is therapy today. As if people can’t heal on their own most of the time. I have yet to see it ever be a cure all and it pays someone elses bills long term. Most of them have problems themselves and use their client’s to figure themselves out and get answers. I knew many people who were hooked that way. Very few clinician’s are good or know when therapy is “over” or should be. I have heard of people in therapy for 35 years with the same therapist!
hey B-E
Thanks. You are right about Cluster Bs in many of your comments and you’re preaching to the choir here! In fact possibly the craziest and most disturbed person I ever met in life (who had NPD/BPD and sadism) and wore a mask of sanity was a clinical psychiatrist! I met him in a personal way (not professionally, we first met at an art gallery where he went on about ‘masks’ – should have rung a warning then, but I was naive.) Crazy – crazy he was! He had become a shrink to do self-therapy and almost drove me crazy with his games over the course of 7 months as a ‘friend’.
I count myself as very lucky in general in life as I’ve seen a lot of real suffering and poverty in many parts of the world and often say that “we all have the right to feel sad at times, but we do not have the right to feel ungrateful.” And thank my luck that I’m naturally very logical so prefer figuring out problems rationally than through emotional reasoning.
Dr. T’s past several articles have been like decoding the virus program of the Cluster B. Like the last scene in the first Matrix where Neo decodes agent Smith’s rogue program and their blows can no longer hit or hurt him.
The best remedy to B-proof oneself is Document, Detach, Drive on. and never look back! And this I found is the best one word response to all their acts, the minute, yes the minute their verbal provocation starts. (It’s goofy and geeky as hell, but the best antidote that can irritate the hell out of high conflict people and make them leave you alone; to be delivered with a poker face and one arched eyebrow
the word is ‘fascinating’ or ‘interesting’, to be delivered Spock – style (sorry I’m a big Star Trek & Star Wars fan): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFods1KSWsQ
Your right. You leave them behind and move on. It is beyond my wildest imagination how these B’s fool other physician’s in Medical School. It is very hard to try and have any clinician’s license removed when it should be the other way around. The standard should be high and maintained.
The B’s love these kind of jobs to get their needs met from their clients and have a sense of power over people and as yet another guise of sanity. The Perfect Setup.
Closure at last: “(Oprah) will never ask truly accomplished and truly brainy and rational women for expert advice on her show.”
Of course she won’t. Such a woman would expose her as an intellectual pygmy. It would be unacceptable for Oprah to be upstaged or called out on her very own show.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. And Oprah is the absolute monarch of her own empire.
I read the linked Newsweek article. Very long, but totally worth it. I’m putting it on Verbal’s Must-Read list.
@ Verbal. yes, that Newsweek article is very comprehensive and was the first that had taken Oprah to task for the unqualified ‘experts’ she propagated.
The Suzanne Sommers book she recommended is also recommended highly by the narcs in the ‘sex and the city’ movie. It figures, right? Same shit, different disguise. same baloney/insecurity/entitlement, different face.
btw – it has recently been irrevocably proven by an investigation in the UK that the doc who started the vaccine-autism brouhaha had knowingly warped data and written lies and was in cohorts with a shady law firm that wanted to make money by suing vaccine companies. O provided the idiot-who-won’t-shut-up a.k.a Jenny Mccarthy limitless platform to spread her anti-vaccine bullshit and indirectly endangered lives of tens of thousands of children whose moms followed this utterly fallacious mantra and did not vaccinate their kids. (My boyfriend – a Cornell neuroscientist says that spreading such fake propaganda as Mccarthy did is Criminal in its endangerment of children’s health.)
To allow J Mc to sprout ‘scientific advice’ as some ‘expert’ as O did is akin to asking a tarot card reader to perform neurosurgery. I’m glad Newsweek raised this issue too.
Same deal with “Dr.”Phil. He is an enabler to male-abuse and is a media-savvy quack.
I will enclose one last last link placed by ’60 minutes’ today about Oprah. Once again, to be politically correct – I state that one can commend how she became successful in her own life and the ‘joys’ she brought to her worshipers. Rather, the 60 minutes video of her from 1986 is rather fascinating to observe, without passing any value judgment, but only to observe factually, to see her own attitude towards men & dating, and to gasp that 25 years later this would be the future Queen who would gain followers and enablers like “Dr.” Phil for ‘Operation Emasculation’. Very interesting : http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504803_162-20029629-10391709.html
Think it’s time for the bumper sticker. “Listen to Dr. T, not Dr. P”
I commend the incredible courage and guts of Dr. palmatier to write this objective analytical post, when even though the blatant truth is out there, most media giants would not dare to go against P’s lack of ‘O’bjectivty.
sorry typo – the courage of Dr.Tara Palmatier, I meant.
Here’s another interesting take from Nancy Franklin in “The New Yorker.” I think Oprah may have jumped the shark with her new network:
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/television/2011/01/24/110124crte_television_franklin
Best thing she said in the interview is, “Excellence is the best deterrent to racism.” She actually seemed fairly level-headed back then, before she became an unapologetic narcissist.
To be honest, I think she has always been a very good actress who loved the spot light to be focused only on her and that interview shows that aspect of hers pretty early on. More a method actor of life. Barabara Oakley in her book in fact mentions how narcissism which wishes to promote some ‘greater’ cause believes in itself so wholeheartedly that this tenacity finally makes it happen through a focused ambitious steamroller. The greatest art of self-promotion is when you pretend it is for a ‘greater cause’, ‘a greater good.’ Featuring herself on EVERY photoshopped cover of her magazine speaks volumes of her dream realized – a dream that began early on. Just an observation.
Jimmy Kimmel has video of Oprah meeting her half sister for the first time. Very illuminating.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c43_1295986006
Very illuminating indeed! And I think even this pussycat is better qualified to dispense therapy (true story on link) than Dr.phi-phi, and what’s more has retained his whiskers unlike the de-moustachioed phi-phi. http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/27/5936323-online-degrees-qualify-cat-to-be-your-shrink?gt1=43001
My God, some of the worst years of my marriage to my ex came after she discovered Dr Phil. Every day I would come home from work to find a wife who had just spent an hour reveling in new ways I was always wrong about everything. I would bet about a quarter of his audience are stay-at-home Cluster Bs; his show is a freakin’ seminar for their persuasive blaming games. Sometimes Dr. Phil does take the women in these marriages very gently to task, but he tends to minimize their roles (as above) every time, and the crazies at home easily tune that part out. They watch to hear the good part: how it’s always his fault!
As I said before, I am not a regular viewer. If this is an example of his standard fare, I think he’s enabling and advocating the abuse of men. Then again, he submitted to the symbolic castration, re: allowing Oprah to shave off his moustache on national television. That was a jaw-dropping moment for me—very Sampson and Delilah.
SJ: “Sometimes Dr. Phil does take the women in these marriages very gently to task, but he tends to minimize their roles (as above) every time, and the crazies at home easily tune that part out.”
Dr. Phil seems to buy in to a certain societal conceit that prevails in the way we hold women accountable. As the father of both a boy and girl, I find I have to check myself to make sure I hold them both to the same standards. All too often, parents don’t do that.
@son: “Get your lazy butt out of bed and clean your room.”
@daughter: “It’s okay if you’re too tired to clean your room; you can do it later.”
By “going easier” on our girls, we grow them into women who are experts at dodging accountability and responsibility. Dr. Phil is simply reflecting a social norm.
Dr. T, you also need to check out the Dec. 29/10 episode. http://drphil.com/shows/show/1492/
In that one, the guy was clearly abusive, but the woman was no angel. I’m a gun owner, and the guy admitted to threatening her with his pistol. That’s a no go, no matter how badly a woman treats you, unless you’re at the point of literally defending your life.
Dr. Phil has set this year as his big year to expose domestic violence. I don’t have an issue with the campaign or the intent. I am concerned that the focus is totally on men as abusers. The website says “Every 15 seconds in America, a woman is abused.” And, in the Dec. 29th show, Dr. Phil went so far as to basically say “Because men are bigger and more powerful than women, they are automatically intimidating, and if they do anything in response to a woman’s actions, it’s abuse.”
On that point, I have to vehemently disagree. Many men won’t fight back against a physical attack by a woman. But according to Dr. Phil, if you do defend yourself, it’s abusive?? And power comes in many forms.
I remember the first time my ex and I went for counselling. After a couple of sessions, she begged off our next appointment, so I went on my own. The counsellor (a woman) told me that I had to be more assertive, that I needed to make my wife respect me. She recognised the power imbalance in our relationship, and knew the power was with my wife – because she fully controlled our physical and emotional relationship, and I was susceptible to that. I even remember saying to the counsellor that I didn’t know if I could do it, that “She’s a very powerful woman.”
Unfortunately, as soon as I did start to assert myself, simply by saying “NO”, and “I want to do something that I’m interested in” or “My needs are as important as yours”, that was the cue for my NPD to accuse me of being angry, and since I was angry, it justified her behavior. She couldn’t (or probably could, but chose the not to) understand the difference between assertion and anger.
I’ll try watching it, never again, but I don’t know if I can sit through another 45 minutes of Dr Phil.
It is very hard to sit through and watch this stuff. The guy surrounds himself with an audience that will agree with everything he says. If the guy were to defend himself, Phil would not be open to listening. He has already made up his mind and he has the tools to make the guy look foolish and defensive.
The guy is in the classic no-win situation. If he admits abuse, he is an abuser. If he denies and tries to present his case, he is defensive and unenlightened.
Really, the playing field on this show is so lopsided that the guy stands no chance. I will never understand why a man would enter this arena where he has no chance of winning. Perhaps he gets paid well.
This made me sick to read. What good does a size difference make when the other person is holding a weapon such as a knife or a gun or throwing heavy objects at you? I don’t know the particulars of their situation–and I certainly didn’t bother to tune into this quack’s show–but I do know what I experienced. I know what it’s like to be afraid of a spouse and have a size difference on her. My fear was grounded on several levels:
1. Fear of my own safety
2. Fear for her safety if she hurt herself
3. Fear of what would happen if I lost my cool
4. Fear for our defenseless pets
5. Fear of the neighbors calling the police if they hear dishes shattering
But that kind of analysis is too much for a lazy pop-psych like “Dr.” Phil and others who blindly assume that it’s the bigger man who has all the power. Power manifests itself in a lot of different ways. For example, preying on the guilt and morals of a spouse to always get your way is one form of power that doesn’t require any physical size. Spending $2k on a credit card to get even is a form of power that requires no size advantage. Withholding affection (read: not merely sex) is an abusive exercise of power.
I’m glad there are avenues out there for women to be encouraged to tell their stories and get help. If “Dr.” Phil and Oprah want to fill that niche, then so be it. All survivors of abuse need an outlet and resources. I just wish they showed the intellectual honesty to recognize that men have survived abuse as well and would champion that cause of ALL abuse survivors.
Dear Math:
It doesn’t have anything to do with Dr. Phil’s laziness, it has to do with him not wanting to give up his own “dominant” need for power. He has to have power and control over all the domain’s he can. He could give a crap about others most of the time. He isn’t going to give any of his power up either, and he is using his platform to seek yet more power and run his own personal agendas to persuade and influence the public. Pure manipulation and hokum. He is like Dr. Evil in Austin powers. First I’ll rule my family, then the world!
Why in the world would you fear for her own safety when she abused you? It is a hook she has on you in the empathy department that is most likely keeping you hooked and isn’t in your best interest or viable in anyway. It is a time when you should be turning the empathy in on yourself and protecting yourself from her and not enabling a bad behavior of hers. You aren’t her caretaker and if she is that bad call an ambulance or the police to get her to a psyche hospital or jail. It isn’t your job to protect people from her either. It is her own legal and moral duty to do so for herself. Any guilt you may have isn’t real guilt. It is what I call misguided guilt based on flawed moral beliefs.