Shrink4Men Comment of the Week: How to Minimize Contact with your Abusive Ex-Wife When You Are Co-Parents
Hi Everyone,
Every now and again, I review old Shrink4Men articles and comment threads and am always impressed by how articulate, wise and helpful the Shrink4Men community is. Many of these comments contain such important insights that they’re able to stand on their own. In an effort to feature this information and keep it fresh, I’ve decided to post a “Comment of the Week” every Friday.
This week’s featured comment is from longtime Shrink4Men community member, JP. He posted a great comment this week on the original Shrink4Men blog that explains how to reduce contact with an abusive, controlling ex, even when you have to co-parent with her.
JP writes:
You’d be surprised how much contact you can eliminate if you’re disciplined about it. It will seem bizarre at first since you’re so fresh from splitting up, but you can tell her you’ll only discuss scheduling and medical issues via text and email, and that’s it. The phone for TRUE emergencies, but respond in as few words as possible. Later, when things have shaken out, you can allow more contact if needed.
Also, it helps to always have a plan instead of open-ended, “What do you think?” conversations. Give her a choice of agreeing or not. For example, pre-split you might have said, “Junior’s been complaining of stomach cramps. I was thinking of taking him to the doctor. . . whaddya think?” Post-divorce it would be, “Junior’s stomach’s been bothering him. I’ve made an appointment for him to see the doctor tomorrow. Let me know by tonight if you object.” If she doesn’t reply, consider it a ‘yes’ and take him.
When you have to see her, keep the poker face. Show no emotion regardless of her attempts to provoke you, charm you, appeal to your pity, etc.
Even if your feelings are still raw, you can fake the detachment. You’ll probably find that the physical display of detachment will actually help foster your internal state of detachment.
If she starts working your buttons, concentrate on your breathing or find some external object–a lamp shade, picture on the wall, etc.–on which to focus your attention.
If all else fails, don’t be afraid to turn and walk away. Just do it in a calm detached manner.
Remember, now that you’ve split, everything you do is under a microscope, so be a prince–not towards her, although you need to be above reproach there, but in your conduct with the kids, and in general. Also, realize you’re setting precedents that will impact your final settlement. In particular, your parenting schedule and the money you give her for child support may well be used as the basis for the final settlement, even if in your mind it’s a temporary set-up. So make sure you’re getting as much time as you can with the kids and giving her as little money as you can.
Forget chivalry. You’ll just get screwed for it later. In fact, if you can find out what the child support guidelines are in your state/province/parish/whatever, you should calculate your child support payment based on these guidelines, give her that and not a penny more. She’s going to hate you no matter what, and she’s never going to give you credit or reciprocate later for any generosity on your part, so don’t let her opinion of you influence your choices.
Good luck.
This comment has lots of good advice. Briefly, I want to emphasize a few of JP’s points:
1. No matter how, kind and generous you are; you’re going to be portrayed as the villain, so do what’s good for you. Many men who become involved with controlling and abusive high-conflict women and/or abusive personality disordered women are genuinely nice guys who want to be seen as nice guys. This is a trap when you divorce one of these women. You can give her the shirt off your back and all your vital organs and she’ll still portray you as a jerk. Therefore, protect yourself and your ass-ets.
Don’t be an appeaser and don’t agree to anything that’s not in your or the children’s best interests in the hopes of amicably resolving the matter. The more you try to appease a woman like this, the more she’ll try to take from you.
2. Make generosity a choice, not part of a court order. Figure out the absolute minimum you have to give her while separated and not one red cent more. Who cares is she accuses you of being selfish, cheap, stingy and cruel? If you want to provide extra for your kids, do so AFTER the settlement has been reached and the ink has dried. JP is absolutely correct about not setting precedents.
Also, make her work for every penny she tries to squeeze out of you. Many high-conflict women are supremely lazy. Hopefully, the more obstacles you put in her path, the more frustrated she’ll become and perhaps give up.
3. Never let her see you sweat. The goal of the high-conflict and/or abusive personality disordered woman is to inflict pain and get a reaction out of you. When you react with sadness or anger, it rewards her abusive behavior. Better to be called an unfeeling robot than let her know she’s getting to you.
Good stuff, JP. As always, I’m extremely grateful for your contributions. —Dr T
Shrink4Men Coaching and Consulting Services:
Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.
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10 Responses to “Shrink4Men Comment of the Week: How to Minimize Contact with your Abusive Ex-Wife When You Are Co-Parents”
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Yea JP!
Ditto.
I second that…JP, I copied and pasted a few of your posts from other articles, as you are able to articulate the feelings, the relief, and…well, the experience so perfectly.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
I also read a nice article by Dr. Deena Stacer on communicating with your Ex when there is high conflict. It’s called, “How to “Ex” Communicate-When Coparenting Does Not Work”. I have found it useful in understanding high conflict coparenting (such as with a BPD ex) and how to handle communication with that person. It echos many of the same things expressed above. It’s worth a read. If you are interested, I’ve included the link. http://parentsinconflict.info/how-to-ex-communicate-with-a-difficult-parent
Great article. Thanks for sharing the link, George.
I have found with any Cluster B that if they have an audience in their life to give them what they want; which by the way they call support, it is more likely that JP’s approach will work. I agree that you have to have a thicker skin and consider the source in order to not let them get to you. You will be wrong no matter what you do. Consider JP’s plan a lesson in self confidence and autonomy as well as a way in which you are growing stronger. It is, also, satisfying because the B can’t do that and that is what they need and must do to get out of their masochism and won’t. There is no need for vengeance from you because they do it to themselves. By you living well, you add a level of justice served to you by yourself which you full well know is hard to find for yourself elsewhere especially in the legal setting. You have more power than you think you do this way as well.
I have a problem with the concept of a HCP. In order to be diagnosed with a PD you have to be grossly impaired in the areas of not taking responsibility and falsely blaming others. I believe a better gauge of who will be a HCP in the context of the Cluster B’s is how much narcissism they have, how much of an audience and woo woo supporters they have on their side to validate their warped perceptions so that they feel visible as well as the level of Histrionic PD present. Another key component is how much of their identity was tied up in them being your wife or lover without anything else mattering to them as much as you. They fight hard to get you back too because they lose the role defined by you and losing their identity is very scary and painful because they can’t figure out how to get one in the first place! Lastly, how many times have they lost in their lives?If it isn’t much, you have a very spoiled and hate filled child on your hands and the stakes of you and yours being in danger are much higher. If you have one who is more prone to self harm, I believe you are in lesser danger. They have lost a lot in life, and they are used to it and are very comfortable with it. They usually will have a pity party even if they are the only one attending and be more prone to self harm because they internalize their self hate . I believe these patterns are the crux of whether they will act out or in or abuse the legal system instead of saying pervasive blamer because it is too simply too broad and lacks needed distinctions.
If you study the stealth abusers such as Clara Harris, Betty Broderick, Nancy Kissell, etc, the above patterns fit them of being the kind to be more dangerous and dogmatic kind in a legal or interpersonal setting.
Hi BE,
You raise some very interesting point re: who will become high-conflict in terms of Cluster B pathology. According to your hypothesis, a personality disordered person is more likely to act out in a high-conflict manner if:
1. They’re more prone to acting out/directing their rage/blame at others rather than those who engage in self-harm.
2. Their level of narcissism is high (i.e., “It’s never my fault. It’s always someone else’s fault. I’ve been wronged. I’m special. Therefore, I’m entitled and you owe me.”)
3. They have at least one or more negative advocate to keep the high-conflict fires and imaginary victim-status fueled.
4. They’re used to getting their own way they’ll have a harder time “losing” (i.e., resolving matters amicably and fairly). Also, if you’ve acted as a buffer to shield them from real world consequences, they’ll be even more angry about the end of the relationship because now they’ll need to deal with the mundane aggravations the rest of us peasants deal with each day.
5. They’ve made their entire identity being Mrs. So-and-so/Super Mom. Since many don’t have identities and interests of their own; it becomes a matter of ego preservation vs. ego annihilation.
Makes sense to me. Thanks, BE!
Lots of good information in JP’s comment, Dr. T’s blog entry and the comments here. I was 12 when my parents split. My mother is likely NPD and possibly BPD. One thing I’d add is no matter how tempting it is to use an older child as a go between, to avoid conflict with the Cluster B , DON’T. It only puts the child in the middle and the child has to live with the Cluster B.
Unfortunately, using a child as the go-between happens all too frequently. I know of one NPD/HCP who uses her 16-year old to deliver bills to her father during his visitation that are additional to CS. When he refused to deal with his ex’s continued demands for money, the ex enlisted their child as a bill collector. Sick.
This is just one example. The grown-ups need to be grown-up. If you can’t handle having adult relationships, don’t expect your kids to do it for you.