47 Responses to “Dr Tara J. Palmatier on AVoiceforMen Radio Tuesday, June 21, 2011: “Accidental” Pregnancies, Entrapment and Children as Weapons”

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  1. knotheadusc

    My husband’s ex wife has been married three times. She has made a habit out of getting pregnant within two months of each marriage. When she was married to my husband, she claimed to be on birth control that “failed”. At the time, she and my husband were raising her son from her first marriage, who was also born right after his father married the ex. They were poor and couldn’t afford another baby. My husband ended up adoring both of his daughters–#2 came along a couple years later when they were still broke. It was heartbreaking when they later turned their backs on them because of their mother’s craziness.

    Years later, when the ex married victim #3, like clockwork she was pregnant again within two months of tying the knot. She now has five kids by three different men, all of whom have eventually been used as weapons against their fathers.

    • Dr Tara J. Palmatier

      This is a great example for men who worry that their crazy girlfriend, wife or ex will somehow magically change and be wonderful with the next guy. Second verse same as the first. They have a pattern that they repeat over and over and over again. The biggest tragedy is when these women bear children into their dysfunction and abuse.

      • knotheadusc

        When my mother-in-law heard about the ex being pregnant with her fourth kid, she said she wasn’t surprised because that’s how ex “gets her hooks into her men.” My husband’s mom never got along with the ex. Consequently, she was the first family member to get cut out of the kids’ lives. My mother-in-law hasn’t seen her grandchildren in about ten years.

  2. thatsme1980

    My huband didn’t marry his daughter’s mother but she has made damn sure he pays up and is reminded every month that he will never see her. He was 17 she was 15 when she got pregnant but didn’t know he was a father until his daughter was 2. She’s 17 now but he’s only seen her maybe 5 times in her entire life and has no relationship whatsoever. Sad really we have two kids and he’s a great father but just like your article stated, “In healthy relationships between healthy adults, children are a living symbol of their union and love.” His poor daughter she never had a chance, we just keep trying to get through. The mother had other kids and lives off the state, she doesn’t care about her kids or the mens lives she has ruined. I’m just glad she’s 1000 miles away.

    • Dr Tara J. Palmatier

      That’s such a sad and, unfortunately, all too common story, thatsme1980.

      It never ceases to astonish me how some women view children as property and use them to hurt others—ignoring how badly their messing up the “MY” children.

      The sickest part is, they use these kids to hurt the other person who gave them life. In a sense, when mommy turns the kids against daddy, she’s teaching the kids to hate a part of themselves. It’s no wonder many of these kids end up as troubled as their mothers.

      My advice to any man who finds himself in this situation is to go to an attorney who specializes in father’s rights instead of the engagement ring store. Then brace yourself, it’s going to be a bumpy 18 years.

  3. exscapegoat

    I do think people who lie or mislead their partners are awful people and when it’s clear what they’ve done, they should be punished legally. Such as the woman who stole her ex-husband’s sperm from the sperm bank. But she wasn’t punished, so I think that says a lot about how society just ignores this problem.

    I would be in favor of suspending child support for cases where it was obvious a man was oopsed. The problem is most of the time it’s hard to prove. Even the pill is only 99.9% effective, when used correctly. Which does leave a .1% margin for error.

    Sex carries certain risks for everyone involved. For heterosexual couples with women of child bearing age who don’t want children, one of the risks is an unwanted pregnancy.

    For the woman, the risk is she’s either going to go through an abortion or a pregnancy. Though most births and abortions go smoothly, both have physical risks for her. And she’s going to have to decide between one or the other. That can be a difficult and emotionally charged decision for some women.

    For the man, one risk is that he might have to support a child for the next 18 years or not have a say in an abortion. Another may be he may have emotional consequences from his partner’s decision.

    These are the risks straight men and women of child bearing age assume when having sex. Anyone who’s not prepared to handle these consequences, male or female, should not be having sex. People either need to pull up their big girl or big boy underwear if these consequences happen or keep their underwear on in the first place.

    • knotheadusc

      I agree. I wish more people would stop and think before they have sex. Pregnancy is preventable and both partners ultimately have the power to prevent it from happening.

      • Dr Tara J. Palmatier

        Agreed. Actually, I wish more people would stop and think before they even get involved in relationships.

        There’s a new male birth control pill that’s just about ready to come onto the market. So far, tests have shown no negative side effects. If I were a man who didn’t want children AND was dating/married to Crazy, I’d have a prescription.

        It will be interesting to see how certain women’s groups will respond when this pill becomes available and men can say, “My sperm, my choice.” A male contraceptive pill will shift the reproductive power women have enjoyed for a long time to a more equitable state.

        • Mellaril

          “will shift?” Maybe “might shift” would be more accurate. Never underestimate the volatile combination of desire and opportunity.

          I was waiting for the valet to bring my car around and overheard the following:

          “I’d rather go back to my place. I believe in ‘safe sex’ and I only feel safe in my place.”

          It was at a club in Seattle ~1986.

          • Dr Tara J. Palmatier

            How about, “I hope it will shift”?

            Wonder what the valet meant by that? That he knew the condoms at his place didn’t have little pinholes in them?

          • Mellaril

            I should have included a little more explanation. What I overheard came from a young woman standing behind me. She and guy were in an apparent hurry to get somewhere to consumate the evening. If that was her definition of “safe sex,” I wondered how long it would be until she was celebrating Mother’s Day.

            My obscure point was just because something beneficial’s available, don’t rely on someone to use it.

        • exscapegoat

          I think if it’s effective, it’s a win for all. Guys get more of a say in their own bodies which I think is good for them and any potential children. Having a reliable method to prevent fatherhood until they’re ready (for those who want children eventually) means they’ll be better fathers. And if it has less risks than the pill (clots, etc.) in relationships where there’s sufficient trust, the couple can use that method and give the woman’s body a break from the pill.

          The only women I can think of who will object to this are the ones who are trying to oops a guy. And I’d say that would be a helpful red flag right there and the man should run as far away as he can from her. Even with a male prescription pill, the woman could still sabotage them, so the man would be well advised to keep them where only he has access to them.

        • Ithappened2me2

          My child’s mother was pregnant at least two other times that I know of, one miscarriage (someone she had hoped to marry) and one abortion (her mother didn’t approve of him) before she entrapped me. Since then she has had “pregnancy scares” with her “boyfriends” or “fiances” after dating a month or two. As if she is trying it again. It would be hilarious to find out that the guy was actually on birth control or fixed but did not tell her until after she started back with her entrapment games.

  4. exscapegoat

    PS, I’ve heard the terms reproductive abuse and reproductive coercion to describe this type of behavior (lying or sabotaging contraception or destroying contraception). I Googled it to see if it included male victims. Not surprisingly, the first 2 pages of results focus on female victims. Just as in domestic violence, male victims are overlooked.

    IMO, the topic of reproductive abuse/coercion should be covered in sex ed and it should be emphasized that both genders can be abused this way.

    • Dr Tara J. Palmatier

      Hi ESG,

      Thank you for sharing the term reproductive coercion. I hadn’t heard it before. It’s perfect. And you’re right, the top search results are about men doing this to women. There are studies link intimate partner abuse to reproductive coercion (big surprise). As with most DV, I’d be willing to bet in happens in nearly equal rates to men, but hey, men don’t have feelings and their rights don’t matter, so why include them in a study?

      • exscapegoat

        What’s even worse, is since it’s so difficult to distinguish between a real contraceptive failure and an “oops” there’s a lot of social pressure on a man to “do the right thing” and marry the woman. Which encourages the HCP and Cluster B women to keep using these tactics because it’s one of the surest ways to get a reluctant or ambivalent man to marry them. Normal, healthy women realize if a guy doesn’t want to get married or is ambivalent, you both sit down and talk about why. And if his not wanting to be married isn’t going to change and marriage is that important, then it’s time to break up and look for a partner who does want to be married.

        Or if a couple is married, children are a mutual decision, no one should be forced or tricked into becoming a parent. It’s not good for the parent or the children. The kid ends up with one parent who’s crazy enough to manipulate someone and the other is reluctant.

        In this day and age there’s a lot less stigma to having children outside of marriage. If a relationship wasn’t on its way to marriage and there’s an unplanned pregnancy, it shouldn’t change the course of a relationship. A father can provide both emotional and financial support without being married to the mother. While he’s still obligated to pay child support if the relationship ultimately doesn’t work out, at least he saves himself the legal and financial hassles of a divorce. That’s not to say there won’t be custody and child support issues.

        Unwitting/unconsenting (i.e. the woman lies about contraception) fatherhood is an unfair situation for these men to be in. Maybe if society were more supportive of men who chose to support their children, but not marry their mothers, more men would take that step. Which would make oopsing a less effective means of entrapment and control.

  5. manofhonour

    …I am speechless.

  6. manofhonour

    THIS IS A SILENCE KILLER…It’s precisely what happened to me. the whole thing is so manipulative that once you are caught in the trap it’s just downhill from there…next you commit, you walk on eggshells and try hard (against your will) to appear responsible, it actually silences you. When I met her I had just broken up with my ex (who I had a child with, my first – 3yo at the time) and somehow she forced her way of moving in with me within a few months of meeting her. Soon thereafter She would mention how she’d love to have a child since she was already over 30 yo and so I made it very very clear that I wasn’t in any way ready to have a child and insisted on contraceptives which she told me she was on and i shouldn’t worry and all…thereafter came the story that she was reacting to the pill she was on and before long she was pregnant, worse I only found out after a few months…I found out later that the pill story was just plain lies. I was devastated…

    The problem I think comes from the fact that most men treat it as an accident rather than confront these women. We just dont want to be taken as “irresponsible jerks” the adverse outcome is that we then idealize the whole mess and hope that it works out well in the end, which is just a dream (a nightmare to be correct). I got so caught up and thought the embarrasment of having a second child out of wedlock…and as most men do, you then want to be “nice” and turn the situation around and make it happy for everyone. Even when she starts to reveal her true character it’s hard for most men to come out of their self-made corners – talk about digging your own grave…Its actually sad to say the least.

    No one ever talks about this topic…as a man once you hide it at the beginning it’s damn near impossible to EVER raise it again not to her and definitely not to anyone else. I remember trying to raise the issue during one of many arguments where she then twisted it into something like I was rejecting my daughter or something like that.

    I am so glad I had the courage to end the madness…obviously with so much help form this site.

  7. Richard G.

    I wonder what the future will be for the human race. Copulating is something I can no longer risk, out of fear that I will have my children robbed from me from the State, or even terminated via abortion. This is evil of such magnitude, and reproduction and parenthood are concepts that men are forced to abandon.

  8. ssscrambled

    Wow, the title of this post got my heart rate up… just thinking back to how stupid I was, and how close I came.

    My ex, feminist academic, abused as a child, lesbian-until-recently (and BPD…) – in short, sex was a very serious subject for her, and had to be treated “responsibly”. First incident: she turned up at my house one day, a little anxious, and announced that her period was late. We had been using condoms, but still, they are falliable. We went together to the supermarket to buy a test kit. She made a big show of refusing to let me pay for it – “it’s *my* problem” – we went back to my place, and waited for the results… negative. Phew! And in the euphoric moments that followed, it was “I guess this demonstrates how important it is that we’re honest with each other”.

    About a month later we were in bed, as it happens at a friend’s house. At the appropriate moment I reached for a condom, but before I could I heard her say “it’s ok you don’t need to. I’ve started taking the pill and I had an STI test when I was at the doctors”. No discussion beforehand. I said, I haven’t had an STI test for two years. She said “it’s ok, I trust you”. Given her history, and her sensitivities on this issue, I thought this was a breakthrough. I thought I was getting somewhere with her. So I went along with it, with all sorts of unpleasant scenarios running through my head.

    We broke up two weeks later, amid all sorts of craziness. She had “decided” to move in with me, after we’d been together for three months. I expressed some reservations about this, about her inconsistencies, and gently insinuated that I needed to get to know her better first. She went ballistic, told me she thought I was a psychopath and “just like all those other men” (which coming from a feminist academic sounds quite convincing, initially), She dumped me on the spot, told everyone we knew (there was no-one she could legitimately call her “friend”) that I had been abusive, and when I tried to get in touch with some of those people to find out what was going on she applied for a protection order against me… which in my state means you are ordered not to have any communication with her (including through third parties) until the hearing.

    While I was waiting for this to come up, I discovered I’d been infected with a nasty sexually transmitted bug… so naturally I was absolutely s#!tting myself that there would be no more nasty surprises later on.

    Due to the “non-adversarial” nature of these proceedings where I live, I wasn’t able to ask whether she was pregnant either – I just had to figure it out by looking at her. No signs, but again it was within the window (about 5 months) where it could easily be hidden. We’ve had no contact since, and while, two years later, I’m pretty much over the trauma, and I’m reasonably confident I would have found out by now if there was a little ssscrambled baby out there, I do have some twinges of doubt now and then.

    My lesson for other readers: if your intuition is telling you something is wrong, listen to it, and act on it straight away!! I’ve since tried to make that my mantra…

    Thanks for your continuing excellent work, Dr. T. I’ve been silent for a while, but I have found reading your site over the last year or so very important, and helpful for my recovery. Best of luck for your radio gig!

  9. Ron On Drums

    Excellent Post Dr T,

    I knew a guy some years ago that got caught up in this. It was the classic he broke up with her, a few weeks latter saw her at a bar, had to much to drink & guess what the end result was? He divorced her many years ago though & now has a wonderful family. Of course he still pays child support & she has done everything she can to destroy his relationship with her.

    Another variation on this one is the “fake” pregnancy in an attempt to win him back. I was a victim of that one, sort of. MANY years ago I broke it off with a woman because of some other silly high school games she tried. Sure enough in less than a week I got the “I’m pregnant” call. I told her something along the lines of I will pay child support but I am still not getting back with you. Something like that, it was YEARS ago. True to script the next call was ‘I had a miscarriage & need comfort” call. I didn’t fall for either. When she called me on the first one I knew she wasn’t pregnant.

    A few years back when my beloved & I first married my stepson who was around 20at the time broke it off with the jealous controlling type. I warned him to fully expect her to play this card. Yep, she did. Took less than 2 days. But his mom & I had him fully prepared. We told him to tell her “That’s great, I always wanted to be a father. I don’t want to be with you but I want to be a big part of the child’s life as a matter of fact I INSIST on going to the doctor appointments with you” Well she followed the script to a tee & within 2 more days gave him the “I had a miscarriage” call. It is almost as if these crazy women all share the same playbook isn’t it?…lol

    Ron

  10. CO_RIDER

    Dr T,

    What great timing! I am actually headed to Child Support court in the morning (6/21 AM) to learn how much I will pay my BPD ex to “support” my 6 year old child who lives with me the majority of time. Our pregnancy was totally a ploy to get me to remain in an unhappy volatile relationship with her. After 8 months, “My thyroid medication must have caused my birth control to be ineffective.” And I had just asked her remove her things from my apartment because I was moving on. I was naive and decided to try to “work things out.” Little did I know, she had a very troubled childhood, was a recovering drug abuser and was not willing to be honest and get help with her issues. She has qualified for psychiatric disability, does not have a job, has 3 children from a previous marriage and managed to rope another guy into donating sperm for her 5th child. She’ll be collecting Child Support from three (3) men, including me! And again, I have my son more that 50% of the time but becaue of the income desparity and this state’s ridiculous Child Support laws, I still have to pay Child Support!

    Anyway, thanks for the site Dr. T. I look forward to listening to your show tomorrow.

  11. Ithappened2me2

    Birth mother claimed pregnancy was due to the pill failing b/c of “antibiotic use” (she had been pg two times in her past by two other guys, one ending in miscarriage, one abortion in which her mother took her) This happened about after six months of “dating” her & my strong desire to end things with her. Found myself trying to “work things out” for the benefit of my child for about three yrs. I do believe she is HPD w/BPD and she has severe somatic symptoms that are never medically explained. Three suicide attempts in which she calls a friend to tell them that she has taken “too many pills” and pseudo seizures. As a result, my child at a very young age was very high maintenance and wouldn’t want to leave her side. Now almost 12 years later, my child is showing signs of severe parental alienation syndrome. My advice to unmarried fathers dating women who exhibit personality disorders when such pregnancy does occur – don’t -walk, RUN the other way…hire an attorney, have paternity testing done,and get your visitation rights in writing from the start, when she keeps the child from you, get counseling for you and your child, go back to court to fight her. Do NOT under any circumstances stay with the mother!! It will NOT work! I wish I had only known then what I know now – not sure if my relationship with my child will ever improve due to the brain-washing of the mother. Everything centers around “Mommy” and only what she wants…like more money. I have moved on with my life and am much happier – just wish I had custody.

  12. JPJ

    It is like a blast from the past reading about “accidental” pregnancies
    in my middle age years.As a late teenager/20`s male,it was commonplace to hear of
    guys getting their “girlfriends” pregnant,only to be served child support
    papers out of the blue.This of course upon completion of “blood tests” to confirm
    the father.
    If the father had gone MIA..(or was broke with no job),child support payments were easily acquired from government agencies that set these girls up with everything…..basically a free ride.
    In my late teens,I did dodge the bullet big time…….only to see one of the coolest guys in the school having to raise the child that could have been mine!!!
    Each time I saw him,I felt sorry/relieved and took one big breath and said “Thank You.”She was a psycho then….hate to imagine her today.
    The best hope for the future for young guys is that affordable birth control pill.
    Please remove all the Viagra ads!

    Thank you Dr Tara for continuing to expose the “psycho control freak women” that use false accusations,creating these restraining orders that just ruin peoples lives.
    There needs to be a new set of laws put in place that when these restraining orders are finally exposed as false,the women that ordered them would be sent to jail for at least 6 months to a year,no questions asked.
    That would truly expose who the true abuser really is.

  13. Allfazeman

    I met my XBMBPCL in “recovery” which is totally the wrong place to meet someone. She was fresh out of rehab so this was still not a problem for me yet. I come to find out that she had had a recent abortion from the BF before me and he was cruel about it none the less. She was still living at home with mom and 2 younger twin sisters and I think those 2 were the reasons she got pregnant. To get away from them. Needless to say as the years went on she was the “Golden Pussy” (as I will call it) and I GOT HER PREGNANT UNPURPOSE. YEA, RIGHT…,

    Where I differ from probably many of the men here is that I ended up with custody when it was finally over. Twice before we had SPLIT UP. Early on when it was just my daughter and then after we had our son. On that split she also hooked up with an “AA guru” and he would help carry out her abuse at her beckon call. I would never do so and that made me a bad parent. So when it was finally over the kids told her straight up they did not want to live with her. This was after I had confronted her about her child abuse and told her to get counseling and get a job. Well as it turned out she refused to go to work and would only go to counseling if I set it up. Well I had done so countless times before and I told her it was all on her to do. So she ran out. That was a short lived relief. Because while we were together and after she left she started calling in false reports to Child & Family Services which is out Child Protection agency here.
    It was at this time me and the MALE investigator discovered that she was trying to sabotage me by calling in late at night after I was asleep false reports to C&FS. This was the moment that the investigator told me to go in and file for custody with the court right away. And that’s what I did. It also wasn’t long after this that I found her “journals” which gave detailed accounts of her abusing the kids because they refused to do her will. At that time I was doing a lot of out of town work. But at the time I confronted her I was just OK’d to collect Disability because I had been hurt on the job almost a year before. This was another reason she decided to leave. She didn’t want the responsibility AND all she needed to do was work part time.

    She left and within a year was pregnant again. Yet before this she started to ignore and negate her child visitations which I didn’t mind one bit. She was still being abusive mainly to our oldest on those visits and I was now seeking supervised visitation. I eventually got it. Now the biggest thing is getting her to pay child support at which she owes over $34K. And though this is a whole other topic the rules need to be changed concerning the way Child Support Enforcement handles mothers differently than fathers because women get off much easier and ARE GIVEN WAY MORE CHANCES THAN MOST OF THE MEN i KNOW OR HAVE EVER READ ABOUT. IT IS DISGUSTING. But now there are 2 other fathers of her children that are looking for money from her, too. Yet technically I get a shot at it first. I think.., and it was she that got herself deliberately pregnant and is now hiding from all of them.

    • Ithappened2me2

      “Golden Pu$$y” thought I came up with that term. That’s exactly what they think they are. You owe them everything (as if you are the meal ticket” once they get pregnant “on accident”.

  14. Attorney George

    It seems to me that these women (and Cluster B people generally) want to take control of everything and take responsibility for nothing. Do you agree, Dr. Tara?

    • Dr Tara J. Palmatier

      Yes, I do.

    • Ithappened2me2

      Absolutely. They want to live the life of a princess. Your child becomes “their” possession and instead of controlling you like in the past to stay, they will maintain control by teaching your child to see you in a negative light they thus keep your child from wanting to see you. They teach your child that the only thing they need to call daddy for is for money much like an ATM machine. I wonder just how many of them live off other children’s fathers, disability/government fund, child support and their families instead of actually holding a job….Until the courts do more for these kids -the kids will continue to live with the mentally ill parent. Most normal/average people can not afford the costs of proving a parent unfit due to mental/personality issues. It’s a sad state to know your child might end up growing up following those footsteps.

  15. xxyyzz

    Oh my God!!! This is EXACTLY what happened to me. All of it. I am like Phil from UK (God bless you brother). The court system treated me like a criminal. I am a decent, nice, good man. Never cheated, abused, and hardly even a cross word. My “crime”? I was a tragically codependent. I have been in the Codependents Anonymous program for 4 years, and it has changed my life. I am now (and always will be) a “recovering” codependent. This has cost me my 4 children, my home, my job, nearly all my possessions.14 years, almost 500K in support, no contact. I realize that humans are extremely complex, yet, predictable. So much so, that my story is here in black and white. I have actually forgiven my ex in my own heart, for my own good. The system, the lawyers, and the JUDGES who treated my as deserving no consideration whatsoever, I still hold a grudge for those. I came to a point where I had to find out what my contribution was. I found that I am a Codependent. Big time. But, I continue to learn how to live differently. For example, I had absolutely NO BOUNDARIES. If you don’t know what that means, like I did not at age 43, FIND OUT! If you have been abused by a narc., ask yourself how you contributed. Check out if Codependents Anonymous can help you. Find a men’s group if you can.

  16. TexasMom

    Oh yes, did it to my son. Claimed she had difficulty getting pregnant, her first child was a miracle, etc. My son used a condom every time. She was pregnant after 3 months. Just about the time her realized he wanted out of the relationship.

    Turned the tables on her ass though. Hired a PI and gathered a lot of evidence on what an unfit mother she was and he now has sole custody of his infant daughter and she has been ordered to pay child support. CPS was notifies and she is being investigated for the neglect of her older child. She has yet to do anything in the court order and has missed a lot of deadlines. Next court date? In several months when he files to terminate her parental rights.

  17. Harvest Hunter

    I didn’t pay attention to the obvious signs. I’m paying now!

    I should’ve paid attention to the way she kissed me on the lips on our first date when I was only reaching for her cheek. I should’ve paid attention when after only two weeks of dating we were living together. And after only 6 weeks of dating I should have moved out after she went on a screaming, crying rant during our first simple disagreements.

    All of that was 5 years ago. I tried to escape but made one final mistake to have sex with her…that was the end of my life as a single man. She trapped me…but she did so because I was a weak man that didn’t make the right decision and she smelled the blood in the water. Now, we’re married with a 3-year old child who I absolutely adore. But I cannot stand her. CANNOT STAND! In fact, I don’t today and have never even liked her. And she had the audacity to ask me if we should have another child…as if the one we have was a planned love child???!!!! Delusional!

    I won’t be staying for very much longer. For any man reading this take my advice; there is NOTHING wrong with being single for your whole life. Marriage is not the end all to be all. Stay single and be proud of it. Don’t allow “societal norms” and feminist pressure to push you into years of unhappiness. If all else fails at least the only ugly, angry, dissatisfied face you have to see every single morning is your own in the mirror.

  18. burned1980

    Hi Dr Tara. I don’t know if you still monitor this post or not. I have a friend who is in the midst of a drama like this. There was a woman that idealised him all the time, paid him a lot of attention and was always offering him sex. She would text him all the time and sometimes when he was out and drunk and got a text he would hook up with her. He always regretted it afterwards and would swear he wouldn’t do it again but somehow would end up having drunken sex with her a few weeks later. He told her that it wouldn’t happen again but over a period of three months it didn’t happen every few weeks. This woman told him that she was in the pill and in any even her gynaecologist had told her she would never be able to have a baby. Anyway, you can guess the next part. Surprise she’s suddenly pregnant. Oh and of course she’s going to keep it. He has no idea if it is his but acknowledges it could be. She decided to stop working four months before the baby is due not for medical reasons but because she didn’t like working while pregnant. She has been demanding money from him already. He offered to contribute towards expenses before birth but she went nuts when he asked to see receipts and ended up backtracking saying that she hadn’t actually incurred these expenses as yet (even though she had originally asked him for payment of things she had already bought). She expects him to pay for the most expensive of everything ($3,500 for a pram). She hurls abuse at him, sends many messages full of tirades telling him how much of a shit bloke he is, then she goes quiet, then she’ll want something and be all sweetness and light until she doesn’t get everything her own way. My friend doesn’t know whether to try and be a part if the child’s life. The woman has moved interstate. She makes comments that she’ll never have to be alone any more now she has the child on the way. She expects him to pay more than the amount the government will determine. She has already threatened that she and her family will make him unwelcome when he visits the child. He is worried for the child with such an unstable mother so wants to be involved. At the same time he worries that being involved might actually make it worse for the child. It seems highly likely she will poison the child against him. Any advice??

    • cicak

      Tell him: do not marry her, no matter what she says, she’ll certainly do anything she can to make him do such mistake. Do not listen to her – watch what she’s doing. Just do as you think you should, trust your own judgement. Be careful of her punishments and do not be afraid to show her consequences for her bad behavior. Do not get close with her, lower contact as much as possible.

      The worst scenario for both him and his child will happen if he marries her. They’ll be her priseners for life and their mental health will rapidly go downward. Their lives are going to be ruined.
      Also, he shold not pay her anything without order, she’ll spend money on herself not on the kid, and there’ll be no evidence that he paid her.
      Always have in mind that she’s abuser, sociopath, monster, manipulator, extremly nstable and mentaly ill person, and he should be very careful, not give in to her manipulatins and blackmails. Keep record of everything thats going on, even every hateful sms. He should also informe himself of BPD, and this site is far the best. It’s good idea to find professional e.g. psychologist who understands these things and who will give him right advices. Also, have a good support, surround himself with good friends and warn everyone not to listen to her lies because of her smear campaign.
      Keep in mind that with these people damage is unavoidable, it’s up to him how difficult is going to be.

      • cicak

        He should consider talking to her family, telling them everything he’s going through and prooving it with recorded phone calls and mails. Maybe they won’t believe, but they’ll know that something’s wrong, and doubt when she’s claiming she’s being abused. Maybe they won’t support her abuseive behavior. Forget about good manners, this is a matter of childs life.
        I forgot to tell the most important thing – ABR – Always Be Recording – he must record every conversation, that’s the only evidence of what’s really going on.
        Yes, it’s that bad.

        Sorry for my english, I had to post because I’ve been through hell with these creatures, and don’t want anybody else to suffer like I did.

        • burned1980

          Thank you. He has kept copies of all her correspondence and recorded some conversations. He’s done this as he feels she is so unpredictable that she will change everything at the last moment. He knows something isn’t right about her but I think he’s shying away from accepting that this person isn’t who he thought she was.

          Fortunately there is no way in the world he would marry this person. She writes and tells him how she is envious of her friends who have supportive partners. Always sweetness and light when she wants something. Always lashing out and belittling him when she doesn’t get what she wants.

          He wants to be involved in the baby’s life but he wants the minimum to do with the mother. As he wasn’t in a relationship with this woman he doesn’t know any of her family. She tells him that her father thinks he is pathetic because he’s not providing adequately for the child. The child hasn’t even been born yet and he has already contributed to expenses and provided details of income etc so she can estimate the child support.

          He is definitely going to stay involved with the child but it will be hard when they are so far away.

          I don’t think my friend really understands how difficult this person is likely to be. He says things like “well hopefully she will mellow out and see sense and do the right thing by the baby”. I hope he’s right but her behaviour so far doesn’t suggest that will be the case. I want to help but don’t want to be accused of poisoning him against her either. I guess he’ll figure it out sooner or later!

  19. Perplexed_Man

    I dont know how to begin. What you Just posted here sounds like my story. But there are certain twists in it. I was dating my GF for over an year.
    She said she had this condition where she cant be pregnant because of some messed up ovaries due to cysts.

    Then when I wanted to use condoms, she said she had birth control pills. Didnt let me use condoms in a way.

    Later she claimed she was pregnant and she will have the baby. Its accidental as the pill failed. When I asked her to reconsider, she Reasoned: “My body my wish. Although I understand, but sorry this is going to hurt you a lot. But, I cant kill the baby , it will break me down!”

    I asked her how she plans to raise the baby without a solid source of long term income?
    Her reasoning: Govt. Welfare.
    And she gave me an option if I donot want to be involved. I went down the guilt track and promised her that I will earn lot of money and financially support the baby in future. Which she was fine with.
    I asked her for Ultrasonic scan of the baby as I wished to see the baby, it was a genuine interest from my side. But she said, she doesnt have the scan as the Doctor didnt give her the scans. I felt reg flags being raised all over the place.
    She regularly hanged out at bars with a few common friends- although she doesnt drink or smoke anymore. But, my doubt is, if you dont drink or smoke, then what the hell are you doing at the bar? The passive smoke is going to harm or kill the fetus.
    Spending late nights at the bar and irregular sleep timings is a very good way of ensuring the baby a healthy development inside the womb!
    And then she wanted me to meet her parents. I broke up!
    She messaged me that she wants me in her bed. I said “no! Enough is enough”
    I asked her not to be excited until the first 13 weeks. But she was like ” I cant lie to people, I will tell them if asked why I am not drinking”
    She said she wants to see me until she finishes her term here and leave i.e. roughly 90 days.
    I said “No!”
    She missed her next appointment for regular scans and check up with the doctor.
    Right now I have gone into social isolation. On one hand I believe her, because she had always been sensible and honest. But then certain other things which she does makes me wonder if she has become blind all of a sudden. I am a helpless silent spectator to the events. At times thoughts of a son/daughter growing up in another part of the world infest my mind. It is unfortunate that the child will grow up hating the father. Although I dont want to be involved at an emotional level. But my Ex want me to keep meeting the child if its born. But her actions make me wonder if there was a pregnancy or:
    Pregnancy> Miscarriage> Revealed as pregnancy to me> Make me meet her parents at the same time> Keep me around until she leaves and get my seed > so on and so forth.

  20. burned1980

    Perplexed man – these people are drama queens. The one I was talking about is refusing a paternity test….

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