Embed of Dr Tara J. Palmatier on AVFM Radio: “Accidental” Pregnancy and Reproductive Coercion
Hi Everyone,
Here’s the embed of tonight’s show. Thanks for listening!
Dr T
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Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.
11 Responses to “Embed of Dr Tara J. Palmatier on AVFM Radio: “Accidental” Pregnancy and Reproductive Coercion”
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The question was raised as to why men so often act how they do in these abusive situations. I believe at least two answers are the same as why women stay in emotionally abusive relationships beyond simple fear.
The first is that it simply isn’t in our realm of understanding. While some of these borderline behaviors are all to common amongst far too many women in our culture, going to the next step isn’t. As the caller from England said; you realize that “something is wrong, but you can’t put your finger on it.”
If you, as a spouse, (in may case for 25 years) can’t put your finger on it, how is anyone else going to do it? How is anyone going to believe that this utterly charming woman (or man) is so cruel and delusional?
My brother and sister-in-law bought into my ex-wife’s story hook line and sinker, shattering a life long relationship that I cherished. My brother openly stated that he simply couldn’t believe any person would behave the way my ex-wife would.
Fortunately and unfortunately for me, my oldest daughter could see enough behavior from her mother to know I’m not crazy, but still refuses to accept just how far it went. Ironically, my usually otherwise clueless mother was very suspicious of my ex’s claims, though broke our trust by never talking to me about it until after the fact. Unfortunately, once we cleared the air, she reverted to giving me empty platitudes.
The second reason is simply that many of us are genuinely nice guys who are trying to make our marriages work and we are willing to take the brunt of some abuse to protect our children. Another brother of mine is doing that with a manic/depressive wife.
I seriously bothered by the suggestion that there aren’t dead beat dads out there. They are a minority, but they are real and give the rest of us divorced dads a bad name. They aren’t always assholes either. I know two dead beat dads who are simply stupid fools for not going to court immediately upon employment change to have child support adjusted (our local courts are quite amenable to this IF you do it right away–once you are in arrears, even my local courts can get quite irrational.)
(Even my otherwise intelligent mother believed that most men only reluctantly paid child support until a friend of hers from church and I filled her in on how child support is calculated. She was quite shocked. The irony for me is that I’m more than happy to pay child support, I just resent how it’s calculated and forced on me the way it is. For all my ex’s problems, this is one place where we are in agreement. Even she would prefer that I pay a base amount for room and board and we split the rest of the expenses as the occur. It would make me feel more part of their lives. At the very least, it should be permissible for me to deduct expenses from my support payments if I take my daughter shopping AND give my ex a receipt. She’s all for it, but the state says, NO!)
Sorry, for one more post, but the host is wrong. People can hide their behavior for a very long time. The problem is that the flags ONLY make sense in light of later behavior. Humans all too easily fall into the trap of ex post facto reasoning. Looking back to our dating and engagement with my ex-wife, while I knew we were rushing things, she wasn’t pushing it. Ironically, my ex-wife’s best friend showed far more “red flag” behavior, but looking back, she’s was just a flake, not crazy.
Now, having said that, on our wedding day my then new wife showed parts of her true self and I didn’t know what to do. Unfortunately, I got bad counsel from parents and church leaders. We should have had our marriage annulled. Yet, for about fifteen years we did make the marriage work. I believe a period of unemployment shattered something in my wife and the bitch came out. Even then, it’s only in hindsight that I can now see a pattern to my ex-wife’s behavior.
Jason:
What you say is very true. I remember feeling like I was ‘turning around’ to ‘look back’ on my relationship. Something caused me to realized I was living with abuse (after reading about it a few times…it finally started to sink in).
Then, and only then, can the red flags be shown.
i know who will help: grandmothers with sons who live with such women as the mothers of their children.
i am going to make a request that started back at the old shrink4men site with dr. t.
we did a VERY good job, though it was a bit bumpy, of defining abuse. i do think though, that it was just the beginning, and i couldn’t really “rest” with the definition in a way that allowed me to go to the courthouse and say “my wife is abusing me, this is what she is doing, here is the evidence, please help me.”
(though i actually did something pretty similar with the support of the definition we came up with)
this site talks about the problem the problem the problem, and a lot of the articles here ring true and frankly, get me inflamed. it’s just that personal empowerment really seems to be the only direction to go in order to help affected men .
i feel strongly that the solution rests in very clearly and calmly being able to define abuse not only to “these women,” but also to the court system and to family services.
we need direct, specific, and effective tactics to dissolve the abuse that our spouses n partners spew at us. the most recent technique i came across is:
evidence:
relevance:
consequence:
action:
i’ve also begun to use EXPOSURE, recording devices, etc.
then what do you during the “backlash” where very few people even believe you, because the mother of your children is very effective at mixing up feelings and facts and accusing you of doing things she actually does? of course “the perfect woman” routine and the whimpering waif all seem to “work” and it’s interesting how no one seems to check if what the woman is saying is based in fact at all. then when i point that out, i wind up being seen as arrogant or demeaning or being accused of being belligerent, when what i am doing is simply pointing out that my wife actually made up what she is saying and that the events she is crying about didn’t happen (or happened significantly differently than she is retelling).
i am currently in discussions with lawyers, family services, the court system, etc. yes, i am building these kinds of intellectual resources up for myself, however, it would certainly help me to team up more.
for example: what do you do when social services tells you that your wife’s abusive behavior towards your kids is a “parenting style?”
what do you do when a psychotherapist tells you, without examining the police report, that the wound inflicted by your wife was “just a scratch,” when she actually dug her fingernails into my forearms so deeply that it hurt for days…and it wasn’t actually a scratch.
since i am the primary caretaker of our children, i am considering asking to be treated as the spiritual mother of the child. i don’t know if i should do that. or maybe asking to have the same treatment that a mother would have, who fulfills all of the responsibilities of raising children the way i do.
anyway: i’m actively looking for definitions and procedures.
…though as i write, i do feel i’ve gotten quite good at recognizing, defining, and explaining abuse.
many counselors even social workers look at the issue as “complex,” when in fact it is not complex at all.
should be “did a good job of starting to define abuse” i think that makes a bit more sense…thnx and blessings 2 u
One of the two biggest problems I see is that here in my state any abuse besides physical and sexual is not recognized as abuse in the court system. The other problem is states such as mine where single party consent to recording a conversation is not allowed, you need “all” parties to consent to the recording, or it is not admissible as evidence. Generally “crazies” are not going to show their crazy side if they know they are being recorded. So between those two restrictions in proving “craziness” you are pretty much screwed.
anon, I think you have to be very artful/skilled inhow you go about describing the abuse one experiences at the hands of a woman like your wife.
Most people who have not been through this, have a very difficult time believing the descriptions of what these women are really like. These women are , often, masters of presenting a false image.
I think the best thing you can do is to be very calm and matter of fact when describing things. Don’t get all excited. Stay even keeled and confident.
A friend who has been through this described how his wife used a pschological concept, the “fundamental attribution error”, to her advantage in undermining her husband’s credibility re his description of her abuse and infidelioty.
Essentially, this concept says that a large % of people will see the behavior/actions of a recently traumatized, abused spouse as his normal behavior.
They see how upset and angry etc an abused spouse or betrayed spouse may be, and then buy into the abuser’s story that this is how the abusee always actsd, thus justifying her behavior and undermining his credibility re his description of her. Believe me, a large % of these abusive women know, eithr conciously or instinctively how to make this work.
One sees this all the time in the infidelity situations. The husband or wife is acting nuts(understandable if you have ever been the victim of infidelity). Outsiders see this and assume that this behavior was present previous to the cheating, and that it was this type of behavior that drove the cheater to infidelity.
You need to be calm, rational and confident whenyou describe to others what she was like. And, it seems to be accepted more readily, if you dole out the information in smaller chunks and remain calm.
thanks ron7127, what a wonderful reply. i was looking for a comment i wrote recently, and found this page by searching “anon.father shrink4men.” i’m so glad i did.