36 Responses to “Upcoming Radio Program: Why Men Should Not Treat Women Like Princesses”

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  1. kiwihelen

    Where do I begin?

    I’ve been thinking a lot about things like “men going their own way” – and I have realised I might well qualify as a “woman going my own way (WGMOW)”.

    I don’t expect special treatment because I have internal reproductive organs. OK, I have failed to use mine – but that is part of being a WGMOW – I realise that maternity is a privilege and responsibility not an right. Part of that responsibility is recognising that an infant of mine would share only 1/2 my genes and the other zygote donor would have equal rights to parent that child.

    Even as I consider moving into a committed relationship I am thinking ahead to ensure that both our legal rights and property rights are protected – yes, there will be a pre-nuptual agreement to keep our finances separate and we will negotiate economic contribution to the relationship within the context of earnings – and I sure as hell intend to use my professional skills at the same level as I have done prior to the relationship…I am good at what I do and respect what he does.

    Last of all, I am not going to become a surogate mother to his children. I can love them, share the job of parenting them, but I am not going to take on responsibility on decision making and discipline – that is his job.

    I guess I am not a princess. I am a WGMOW.

  2. Iron John

    Looks like a good topic for a show. Marc Rudov would be very pleased.

    P.S. I still haven’t thought of better name for this new show. Sorry.

    • Dr Tara J. Palmatier

      Thanks, Iron John, I’m looking forward to the program.

      No need to apologize re: the no-name show. We haven’t come up with one either.

      • john roads

        I listened to the latest show and it was tremendously therapeutic ..and the denial armor that slows and weighs me down but I wear to protect me from cognitive dissonance is starting to crack ..very helpful but cognitive dissonance is painful …been thinking of some names for the show

        The miss androny show
        Taking the bull by the horns with Dr T and Dr P

        Men’s night IN with Dr T and Dr P

        Happy wife happy life and other male mashing myths

        Today a friend of mine said ” yeah men are immature ” and I said that’s just crap we’ve been fed ..why is it okay to bash males and generalize like that …society wouldn’t tolerate that sort of talk about Any other group and this friend is a shrink to boot.

        • john roads

          I forgot to note this friend is male …typical self depricating male we’re our own worse enemies ..I’ve done it myself up until listening to last nights show

          • kiwihelen

            I put a vote in for a variation of one of your names

            The Ms Andry Show…LOL

            John, it is so easy to slip into the attitudes that “men are so “, but once you are aware it becomes very interesting and challenging.

            I quite often challenge people now on it…

          • john roads

            It does seem that it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle both in general male bashing and with my relationship with a very abusive wife ….I am very heartened by hearing similar stories …I wouldn’t even know where to begin..other than where I am right now ..sleeping alone for the past month which was preceded by my being screamed at and insulted for asking why we Received a shutoff notice From the utilities company …she’s in charge of the joint account from which the bill is paid …im.writing this and can’t believe im describing my situation …..I have 2 son’s who have to see their father sleep alone …growing up believing this is the born..this is only the most recent event….of a 22 year marriage ..im so used to it but this forum has been a genie out of the bottle reality reference I find myself wanting saying ” What makes her believe that anyone would sign up or be expected to be married and sleep alone and be treated witg such disdain “…oddly enough I am physically attractive and at 52 still get unsolicited smiles From women ……..yet I don’t Find feel attractive or desirable after years of denigration…….intermixed withshoes of passionate sexual desire usually when my wife is drink or I suspect her friends remind her how attractive they find me

        • Iron John

          Those are some good suggestions, john roads. All I could come up with was, “The Tara and Paul Show”. Anyways, keep em coming!

  3. lifeonborder-line

    Definitely a must hear show for guys who haven’t been married. For those of us who have been married to a princess, I’m sure it will be entertaining and we will have something to contribute

  4. knotheadusc

    I have to admit, my husband really does treat me like a princess; but I try very hard not to act like one and I mostly succeed. My husband enjoys being good to me and I don’t abuse his goodness.

    I will also admit that I don’t use the professional skills I developed before we got married. It’s hard to pursue a traditional career when you’re married to the military and move all the time! But I try to pull my weight in ways other than financial. I appreciate and respect what my husband does and I do my best to make his life better. So far, our arrangement has worked out well.

    I’m not a fan of women who want to be treated equal to men, yet expect special treatment. I think the whole “princess” movement has done society a disservice by encouraging women to be dysfunctional and entitled.

    • Autumn

      There’s nothing wrong with treating someone well, its a sign of regard and love. What’s wrong is when somebody feels entitled to be treated as though they are better than everyone else and standards they set for those closest to them don’t apply to them personally.

      I so agree with your last statement. Since when is being a spoiled brat a good thing? Reminds me of the book Animal Farm, when the pigs post a sign that says: All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.”

      • LT Greenwald

        Knot and Autumn, great posts.

        • Autumn

          Thanks LT, and congrats on your upcoming one month anniversary of freedom. I can only hope a friend of mine clears away his FOG soon so he can have a chance at controlling his own life again, whatever he chooses to do.

          • LT Greenwald

            Autumn, what’s his concern? You should have him check out my old posts on here. My thinking evolved to the point where I could finally get the hell out. The key was being brutally honest with myself. Tell him I wish him luck and hope he gets out.

          • Autumn

            Lt G,
            When I first started reading your posts, I thought you might be him the stories are quite similar! We are NC right now as he is trying to work things out with her through marital therapy, which I don’t think will work but who knows, I could be wrong (I doubt it).

            I joined the forum under the same name. I don’t know if you are there or not but feel free to check out my post in family and friends. It’s a long one, but unfortunately there’s so many more details as to the abuse he has told me about that could fill a book.

          • LT Greenwald

            Wow. If it’s like my situation, marital therapy will NOT work. And we had a great therapist. The problem was that my wife hated to hear the truth. It absolutely enraged her. I tried to explain to her that we both had to be honest so that we could fix our problems and move forward. But she kept wanting to live in a state of denial, where we’re the perfect couple in public, but she gets to abuse me in private.

            My advice for your friend is that he MUST be brutally honest in marriage counseling. If she can’t handle it, then GTFO. You can’t live you life in denial and abused. (Actually you can, but that would just suck). :)

          • Autumn

            yeah, his life sucks right now.

          • Kay

            I’ve been there. :P Currently NC with a guy who had been my best friend, but he turned on me to please his BPD wife. He told me all sorts of details of her abuse of him and the children, as well. Which is the most likely reason why she hated me so much. I do hope that one day he gets out of the FOG, but unfortunately he seems to have his own issues with narcissism and violence, so I don’t know how much good it would actually do.

          • Cousin Dave

            Kay: Good on you for being compassionate and a good friend. But when the ship is sinking, it’s time to get off.

  5. LT Greenwald

    My older sister used to beat the crap out of me when I was a kid. My mom never stopped her. And my mother gave her a real bedroom with a princess canopy bed, while my “bedroom” was a glorified walk-in closet with a mattress on cinder blocks. Good times. I wonder why I have such fucked up views of women? Hmmm…. :P

  6. bubbajoebob

    I was in the break room at work about two years ago, when MGTOW began to sink in with me and I was finally getting the FOG to start breaking up. A woman was in there talking. I had found her cold to begin with, but never worked with her and withheld any judgement. Until then.

    She was explaining, in a matter-of-fact voice, exactly how she trained her husband and her daughters. Whenever her husband went on a trip, he was expected to bring back gifts like jewelry for their daughters. This was important, she said, because it was how her daughters learned what they should expect in a man, how they should be treated by one.

    That one woman, after my wife, did more to fix MGTOW in my head than anyone else I can think of. It was all I could do to leave that room without unloading on her. I avoid her like the plague now.

  7. Zibot

    DOPAMINE – more to consider about doing the ‘Work’ of carrying your princess for the ‘Reward’

    (from Dr. Robert Sapolsky, professor biology & neurology Stanford Univ 2.15.2011)

    Something about this presentation on dopamine production in the brain seemed very familiar. Substitute where he mentions ‘Reward’ with ‘kindness’ or ‘intimacy’ from your gf/wife – ‘Work’ with ‘effort’to change, adapt, put up with, walk on eggshells … and it starts looking like neurotransmitters are at play in a big way.

    And … ‘maybe this time it will work’ – uncertainty – sends dopamine production further – ‘through the roof’ …

    Can this produce a burned-out dopamine-junkie condition if repeated enough?

    Worth watching – about 5 minutes:

  8. tallwheel

    I used to call my ex GF “Princess”. That was my main nickname for her. I called her that because she was spoiled. She liked it, so I’m not sure she was aware of why I was calling her princess. I let her think whatever she wanted.

    She treated me like she expected me to be her slave, so I guess she thought she was a princess. I went along with it until I’d had enough sex, and then easily broke it off by letting the next fight she initiated go unresolved. Sometimes you can control controlling women without them even realizing it.

    • chester

      I know what you mean. When I had had enough, I simply disagreed or held my own strong opinion. Kaboom! It was over. She always thought SHE was dumping ME. Fact is, I was sick of her, and created the dump on my own….she never caught on….she was too busy rveling in the power-she thought she had.

      • tallwheel

        Even friends I had consulted with about her bad behavior would tell me that I’m too nice, and shouldn’t “let myself get walked all over” by her. I don’t see it that way. I got what I wanted from the relationship, and could have ended it any time I had wanted. I should mention that she did engage in a bit of hoovering a couple months after we broke up, but I wouldn’t agree to see her again, and it became apparent to her that she was the one who had been dumped. She said so herself. “You dumped me.”

        In a way, chester and I were quite lucky that we saw these women for what they were before we became too involved or got married. Once you’re committed, it’s a completely different story.

        The sad thing is that I had started the relationship with the very best of intentions. I had known this woman for years before we became romantically involved and had recognized so many good qualities in her – qualities that she really does have, and that I want in a life partner. I don’t think that what I was attracted to was fake, or just “love bombing”. But once we were no longer “friends” and were romantically involved she immediately changed modes and tried to mold me into her ideal partner. She was uncompromising in her ideals the entire time we were involved and would never stop trying to ‘fix’ me – fix me into her emotional punching bag who would do and give anything for her, no matter how badly she acted. She decided which friends I was allowed to spend time with (none basically) and even what sort of job I should have.

        After her first ‘episode’ brought on by my non-compliance it was already clear to me that the relationship couldn’t last – or at least it could only last if I was willing to put up with periodic fits of unreasonableness for the remainder of it. So at a very early stage I had already decided to just take from the relationship what I could get, and was forced to give up any fantasies I’d had of spending my life with her. (Sigh. It’s sad, and it’s all her fault.) Occasionally during her good spells I would briefly delude myself that things could work if we just loved each other enough, but it was never long before her next episode was triggered somehow and I was reminded that I had to eventually get out.

        If anything, I wish I could hate her more than I do now, so that I could move on more easily. I still can’t stop thinking about her good qualities and how great a woman she could be if her personality could just change, even though I stayed long enough to confirm that she just wasn’t going to change. It was only after that I found this site, which reaffirmed that people like her seldom ever change. Yes, she’s evil and deserves to be unhappy. I just wish she didn’t have to be evil in the first place.

        • Mellaril

          With the excpetion that in no way was my exgf a “Princess,” our stories run pretty similar. As a “Friend with Benefits,” my exgf was outstanding. As a girlfriend, she was pretty good. As an exgf, she positively stunk. It took awhile to understand but the quality of the relationship was inversely proportional to intimacy. The more superficial we were, the better we got along.

          A Navy buddy’s wife once made the comment, “You two make a lovely pair of individuals.”

          • tallwheel

            An abusive woman can tolerate a lot more from her friends (though she usually chooses those carefully as well), but once she decides that she’s going to spend her life with a guy he MUST be perfect. Any deviance he makes from her ideal is cause enough for her to become angry, make empty threats, etc. until he conforms.

            I, on the other hand, believe I am very good at seeing things from other’s perspectives, and can learn to forgive and accept. I learned to fully accept so many things about the above woman that I didn’t like at first, while she was unchanging in her demands from beginning to end. Such unfairness inevitably leads to resentment. What a spoiled princess.

  9. uburoi

    “Captain Crazy Pants” (as I like to refer to her) actually had her high school tiara displayed on her bureau! She was the homecoming queen at 15 in Mississippi…the same year she was pregnant with her daughter. The irony jeez! She actually preferred that I call her queen because her last boyfriend called her princess. I refused to refer to her that way the second time around (yep I got hoovered) and it just amped up her indignant behavior. But I held strong and exited relatively quickly. Guy’s, if your gf or wife’s therapist refers them to an outpatient treatment facility…and their on about 5 different medications including mood stabilizers, anti depressants, xanax, and a mild stimulant to balance it all out?…The writing is on the wall time to STFU and GTFO!

  10. tenquilts

    I’ve always tried to alert people to this danger. More often than not I get told, “lighten up, it’s just make believe.” Yeah, right.

    The problem is that princesses grow into queens. And the queen is one of four of the personalities typifying borderline personality disorder (along with waif, hermit and witch). I ask people calling their babies “princess,” “exactly when do you plan to break the news that she’s not really a princess? Because otherwise her teen years are going to be especially challenging for you.” They laugh it off. This is like when I ask my husband how he expects his daughters to act like adults when he calls them babytalk nicknames. I understand the nostalgic wish to keep them young and innocent but there’s an element of denial there, and without proactive parenting that nips the entitlement in the bud, there will be problems.

    • Kay

      My ex-friend said his wife is a queen bee, and a “mean girl.” Her mother is some sort of diagnosed disorder, and he hates how she’s coddled for it. Yet he himself coddles his wife’s every whim, saying that “respecting women” means that you’re supposed to give in to and agree with everything your wife wants. Which also meant that he helped her to bully me subtly and overtly. Yet he wondered why I said I was scared of her, wondered why I couldn’t be best friends with her, and they both blamed me for that. They both blamed me for being wary of her, for her being mad at me all the time. It was absolutely ridiculous–and I see how it fits into this concept of treating someone like a “princess.” It’s one thing to treat someone well because you want to. But it’s quite another to extend that to, she gets to control you and isolate you from friends she hasn’t approved, and yell and scream at you and hit you when you don’t please her, and you let her treat your friends like crap and drive them away.

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