Brass Balls Award: Husband Sets Boundaries with Slacker Wife and Tells Her to Grow Up and Get a Job
Last week, the Shrink4Men Forum welcomed a group of new members, which happens every week. This article focuses on the recent stellar boundary setting of one of the Forum’s newest members.
Let’s call this gentleman “Earl.” Earl joined the Forum primarily because his wife has been spending their family into debt. Additionally, she has been chronically underemployed or unemployed by her own choice for the majority of their 15-year marriage.
Naturally, Earl’s wife had a career when they first met, which is one of the qualities that attracted him to her. She was a single, working mom with a child from a previous relationship and he admired her gumption and work ethic. After they tied the knot, her career began to crater.
My suspicion is that she made herself out to be more successful than she was during their courtship and the truth about her career came out after the marriage. Alternately, perhaps with her new financial safety net (i.e., husband), she let her career tank because she never really wanted to work in the first place.
According to Earl, his wife spends money as fast as he makes it, which puts enormous stress on him. Her expectation is that Earl should find new ways to make money to keep up with her spending habits and lack of gainful employment. Sound familiar?
For the last few years, Earl has pleaded with her to go back to work. He has told her they only need an additional $20,000/year to cover their bills, cover her spending and save for retirement. His pleas have been met with the usual excuses: “I can’t find anything I’m qualified for that I like. No employer will pay me what I’m worth. I’ll be miserable at the jobs available to me. I want to pursue my dream of starting my own highly niche craft business.”
To punish Earl for having the reasonable expectation that she contribute to the family finances, she has been acting out passive aggressively. For example, she tries to ruin scheduled family events by making them late because “she has to stay home and work.” The implication being if Earl wasn’t “forcing” her to work (i.e., be a grown-up), everything would be peachy keen. Most recently, Earl’s wife made them 2.5 hours late for an elderly dying family member’s birthday party.
Up until joining the Shrink4Men Forum, Earl has been going along with this, waiting on her and feeling more and more trapped. My advice to Earl regarding his wife’s passive-aggressive lateness is as follows:
Leave without her and let her get mad. If she wants to be passive-aggressive, let her do it all by her lonesome.
I suspect it should only take 2 or 3 times for her to figure out her games are no longer going to cut any ice with you. She’ll probably get mad and portray you as the jerk, but at least you’ll be a punctual “jerk.”
This isn’t the only advice Earl received on the Shrink4Men Forum.
Earl states that he would prefer not to get divorced, however, he is tired of enabling his wife’s irresponsible spending, entitlement and expectation that he pay her way through life. He is tired of sacrificing his happiness and well-being to her sense of entitlement. He thought he was marrying an equal partner, not a dependent.
A long-time forum member, Jham, suggested that Earl follow his example. Over a year ago, Jham finally had enough of his wife’s similar behavior and cut her off from the joint finances and credit cards. He essentially gave her an allowance to cover groceries, the monthly bills and that’s it. Jham told his wife if she wanted more money to pay for all of her incidentals and frivolities, she would need to get a job.
Recently, Jham discovered his wife was padding their monthly bills in order to skim money off the top, so he took those over as well, leaving her with less pocket money per month. By the way, who embezzles money from their own family? Wow!
Jham quit paying for his wife’s car insurance, upkeep, parking violations and cell phone bill. He figured she’s been angry and full of contempt for him and unappreciative of everything he’s done to support their family for the last 20 years, so what’s the worst that could happen? She’ll be more contemptuous, ungrateful and angry? She’ll file for divorce?
Let me be very clear. What Jham is practicing is not financial abuse. What Jham’s wife and Earl’s wife are doing to their husbands is financial abuse. They are spending their husbands and families into debt without contributing anything to the financial welfare and security of their families. They are also unfairly placing the entire financial burden on their husbands.
These women are essentially overgrown children who have been running amok with “daddy’s” credit card. Earl and Jham do not want to control their wives via the family finances; they want their wives to contribute to the family finances. This is a reasonable expectation; it is their wives who are being unreasonable.
Over a year later, Jham’s wife finally figured out the money tree was not going to magically sprout new bills ever again and guess who just started a paying job 2 weeks ago? Sure, she’s resentful as hell about it, but welcome to the world of grown-up realities.
Earl took Jham’s advice and ran with it in record time. Earl has given me his permission to share what transpired just over this past weekend. Here’s what happened:
I went home from work last Friday like I always do. Wife was going crazy because she was really behind on an order she’s been procrastinating about for 2 weeks. I talked to her several times during the last 2 weeks about getting started on the order instead of waiting until the last minute and that she should get her work done first and then play on Facebook. She would not listen and would only argue and fight that she knew what she was doing and I should get off her back.
I told her that I always want to enjoy my weekend, and if she is going to work all weekend, then I would enjoy it by myself.
Since she was busy, I did not pause or wait for her (took away her control) and I went and had a great time by myself. Got home by 10pm (I am up early) and went to bed while she was still working.
Should have known Crazy could not let that go.
At 3am, when our daughter got home, she went into my wife’s office and started talking loudly about what a fun night she had. Since they were standing 5-6 feet from my head with the door open, they woke me right away. I try really hard to never say anything in anger, so I let it go until the morning and got up about 15 minutes after my wife finally came to bed.
I started my day. Went to work out, worked on a few small items at work, set up our church for service the next day, had breakfast with a friend and came home and paid all of our bills by 9:30am. Feeling good about how much I had already accomplished for the day, I woke my wife and daughter up (they were not happy to be woken up “so early”) and established clear boundaries. I said:
‘For 15 years I have worked exceptionally hard to put your happiness and well-being before my own. Today that changes. I am not putting myself before you, but I am now putting myself equal to you. For 15 years I have financed and supported you while you have chased one dream after another without ever truly financially supporting yourself, your daughter, or this family. This ends now. You are welcome to chase your dreams, but like everyone else on the planet, if your dreams will not support you, then you better get a job.‘
‘We have mixed our finances together since the day we got married. Today that ends. From here on out, we are separating our finances. You will use the money you make to cover our food budget, gas for your car, your medical co-pays and any personal expenses you may have in a given month. In September, you will take over the cable bill. In December, you will take over the energy bill, and in March, you will take over the cell phone bill. This is exactly 1/4 of the bills that we pay every month. You will need to either make your business work very fast, or get a job.’
‘If you have to work on weekends, that is fine, but that is my time to relax and enjoy life. I will be doing so. Preferably with you, but if not, I will do it without you. Life is too short for me to watch it pass by while you work in your office at night because you spent all day on Facebook.’
After that she cried a bit about not knowing how she was going to get a job because she ‘tried that already’ or ‘no one will hire me for what you want me to make.’ I calmly explained to her that all I’m asking her to do is get a $12/hour job. She has already had 4 jobs like that over the last 4 years that she has quit. I am no longer going to be the one that is punished because she does not go to work. It was her decision to quit those 4 jobs.
I pointed out that most adults who do not work, do not eat. This seemed to upset her. I let her anger be the sign that she was tipping out of control and used that as a weakness. I then related a Bible parable about a man stealing from his employer instead of working, which resulted in him being kicked out of his employer’s home. I told her I do not want it to come to that, but if she continues to not produce, she can be kicked out, too.
This really shocked her. She was incredibly docile all weekend.
I am going to keep this up until she gets and keeps a job, or until she leaves. I hope she does not leave, but I am no longer paying for her to stay with my happiness.
Bring the crazy. I am prepared.
INSERT STANDING OVATION HERE.
Bravo to both Jham for leading the way and Earl for having the courage to take a stand for his happiness and well-being.
However, I suspect Earl will experience some blow back in the form of more passive-aggression, bargaining, manipulating, rationalizing, threats, resentment, hostile dependence, accusations of being cruel and abusive and perhaps even threats to divorce. He seems to have made his peace with the possible repercussions.
Fellas, boundaries are good. Natural consequences for bad and/or irresponsible behaviors are good. Your wife will be angry and resentful, but aren’t you already getting a regular serving of that because of her hostile dependence?
You have a right to be happy. You have a right to enjoy the fruits of your labor and to be able to save for your retirement. You have a right to a partner who pulls her own weight in the relationship, emotionally and financially.
When your wife spends $300 on a purse she doesn’t need without batting an eye it’s probably because she doesn’t get (or doesn’t care) how many hours you have to work at a job you probably don’t like for her to be able to buy that bag that ends up in the back of her closet never to be used. If she had to work 20 hours for a jerky boss and crabby customers to earn $300, she probably wouldn’t spend money so freely. This is why many parents make their kids get paper routes and after-school/summer jobs; to learn the value of a buck.
Your wife may never let go of her entitlement and unreasonable financial expectations, but that doesn’t mean you have to continue to let her financially abuse you.
Don’t try this at home unless . . .
To many of you reading this, what Jham and Earl are doing probably seems like a nuclear option. It might be, depending upon your individual circumstances. The simple fact of the matter is your wife or girlfriend is unlikely to ever change (if that is even possible) unless she experiences negative consequences for her current behaviors and attitudes.
Many women will just divorce you if you quit subsidizing their spending without working because they know they will, at the very least, get half of your assets in a divorce. Therefore, do not attempt this unless:
1. You have made your peace with the possibility of divorce.
2. You have figured out the cost-effectiveness of divorce and potential spousal support and child support costs vs. continuing to subsidize her permanent summer vaca stay-at-home lifestyle.
3. You have clearly figured out a working budget, reasonable expectations for her contribution to it, an equitable division of household bills, and reasonable deadlines for her to obtain a job, etc.
4. You are prepared to deal with any resulting temper tantrums, silent treatment, withdrawal of affection, elective martyrdom, self-sabotage and self-defeating attitudes, bargaining, pouting, etc.
5. You are prepared to stick with your boundary 100%. Any softening in expectations, backpedaling, caving and weakening of boundaries and consequences will undermine your credibility. Your wife will not take you seriously ever again and it’s all downhill from there.
Do not do this if . . .
1. Your wife is physically violent.
2. Your wife has threatened to make false allegations against you to the police.
Although, if your wife is violent and/or threatening to get you arrested, what the heck are you still doing with her? Her gainful employment or lack thereof is the least of your worries.
This advice may not be suitable for you. The point is the importance of boundaries in achieving peace of mind and happiness. Your wife or girlfriend may or may not respect your boundaries once you decide to implement them. If this is the case, you will need to provide a natural consequence, whatever that may be.
Shrink4Men Coaching and Consulting Services:
Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.
88 Responses to “Brass Balls Award: Husband Sets Boundaries with Slacker Wife and Tells Her to Grow Up and Get a Job”
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Like most of Dr T’s other posts, this is right on the money. I never did this, because I was still “trying to make it work”. In the end, being married to a selfish child didn’t work for anyone.
My ex has no accused me of everything under the sun, so this option likely wasn’t for me. But I applaud anyone who can make it stick.
I agree. Being married to a selfish child is untenable and unsustainable. Unless, of course you want to spend your life being the disciplinarian grown-up, which can’t possibly be fun or satisfying.
The kids are most confused, she tries to PAS me with the kids stating that I am a mean man by not giving her money. The 11yo is smarter than that, but the 9yo is confused, you can tell.
All I can do about that is continue to be truthful.
It’s amazing how fast she actually found a job once I put the final boundary in place and started paying all the utility bills out of my online bill pay. I also started doing most of the shopping for groceries. At one point I was giving her $900 per month on groceries, but since the oldest moved out, I stopped giving her that amount and instead, I just get a list and go myself or give her $60 upon request…..she hates asking me for money….but I could care less that she hates it.
She finally realized that all her discretionary money was completely gone….
2 weeks after the final salvo, she seems to magically find a job. She is starting week three of her job and about to get her first paycheck.
And yes, she is the most nasty she has ever been.
As Dr. T. stated, I did look up the CS calculator in my state and I figured out how much I’ll have to pay her once/if she files for Divorce. I AM prepared for the worst, I just can’t take the same ol same ol any longer.
I was pretty pissy with my mom when i had to get a job at age 16, too, Jham. I didn’t want to work as a cashier; I wanted to hang with my friends. I eventually got over it. Your wife probably won’t
Props to you for sticking to your guns. Keep telling the truth to your kids.
But can you remember the first thing you bought with your own money?
I can. I was raspberry picking for the summer. And I got to buy my first pair of jeans and a blue and white striped sweatshirt that was really cool.
I’ve always worked or studied since then (and done both too), but knowing the money had been earned picking raspberries at $0.50 per kg made it special.
I remember the very first paycheck was ~$68, ALL MINE!! I cashed the check and since I was working in the back bays of a car dealership washing used cars….I went to Radio Shack and bought myself a Radio…..I could now listen to “my” music while wax-on wax-off (Daniel-son)
That day was empowering to say the least…..I was 13 and didn’t have to ask anyone if I could spend the $20 on the radio…..I just did it….
I have a set of Snap-On mechanics tools that I also bought when I worked there….they were the most expensive Tools money could buy…..The sit in my garage as we speak, I’ve made thousands of dollars using those tools over the past 35 years.
It was either a round of miniature golf or a sweater from The Limited. I honestly can’t remember.
Jham, I suspect many women like your wife hate asking for money (and they almost all make a huge stink about not wanting to have to ask for money) because it is a painful reminder that they are still children, not self-sufficient, not independent, not “doing the hardest job in the world,” not pulling their own weight and are utterly dependent on men whom they hold in contempt and resent because, I believe, they are jealous that you all actually go out into the world and produce and carve out a living — enough for more than just yourselves — and they’re still dependent on daddy for an “allowance.”
They hate it because it reminds them that the false image they puff themselves up into believing is a big fat lie.
As a point of clarity, I do not begrudge mothers of infants and young children who want to stay home — as long as it was discussed and supported by their partners before getting pregnant and women who, again, with their husbands, choose to remain at home after the kids are in school because they really are stewards of their home. These are not the kind of women we’re talking about here.
Dr. T., I understand that last paragraph fully and that “was” the original intention of our marriage agreement.
However, as you have so astutely pointed out in other articles (thank you for all of them), the train left the tracks somewhere along the lines and CB became neither a “Steward of the home” or “Super-Mom”. She just kinda gave up on that role and became bitter that she was expected to fill it…and yet at the same time found a way to “Oops” our two younger daughters. I thank God everyday for my children, don’t get me wrong with that statement, the meaning being that if CB doesn’t enjoy her role as SAHM, then why continue to have children? (We know that answer, more Hostages).
So, fast forward 17 years(we are married 20…I just started waking up around year 17), the kids aren’t getting “Super-Mom” AND they aren’t getting the benefit of a two income family…what they get is a Mom that ignores them, is all stressed out over “Whatever” (also see Xanax) a smaller town-home to live in, less resources due to lack of funds…..They get a double whammy of neglect.
If she “isn’t going to help with homework, help in the class, take part at PTA, get them into dance or ballet or gymnastics, help at school….then what as a SAHM is she doing? The kids extra-curricular activities are Soccer and BMX, guitar, I wonder which of the kids parents are supporting that?? (also see Father)
Then throw in the “New Woman” when she turned 39…and now there is no Housework done as she is “Above” all that and “It is time everyone learn to do their own laundry” etc.
No child rearing, no house cleaning, limited cooking(I cook as much as anyone), No income, No love for the Husband (he is too mean!) No output toward the family unit at all from her end…..just scorn, ridicule, guilt-ing and shame-ing.
Asking for Money…..that leads to her Hostile Dependency. She cannot do anything on her own that requires money…..and she is so nasty to me, she knows I’ll not hand over a dime without first asking a question or two……the third question being “why do you feel I should give you this money after all the things you’ve said?”
Been there done that got the t shirt it hasn’t done any good. We supposedly had a divorce settlement in nov 2011 she backed out. Since the she has fired one lawyer and hired another. Latest word is maybe Aug 29. If she doesn’t find some way to postpone again. Two days ago she asked me where I wanted to be buried and what kind of head stone I wanted. Can’t pay the bills cause of her spending habits (shopping is an olympic sport to her) do you see a problem here?
alreadylost,
Aren’t you worried about her asking where you want to be buried? Is she still a recipient on any of your life insurance policies?
Even if she isn’t, what the . . . ? What’s it to her? Obviously, you don’t want to spend the rest of this life with her. Does she think you want to lie next to her for all eternity?
If there were no life insurance policies with her as beneficiary, I would check around to see if she took one out on you anyway. This kind of thing happens more often than you think.
I do have to add this one point. Since I put my foot down, We’ve gone from three adults (and one 17 yo) with only one working to…..Me with my job, my Wife with her new job, My 19 yo with his Job at a Italian Restaurant, (paying all his own bills including his insurance and tuition at school) My 17 yo with a part time job at Ace Hardware (He is fixing up my old Corvette to drive….with his own money I might add).
So, in a short year, 1 out of 4 working to 4 out of 4 working….Once I made it uncomfortable, people started getting the message, but it has come at a price as everyone is short with me. But I can guarantee you the ones that aren’t personality disordered will feel a sense of pride as they evolve from helpless child to independent self sustaining adults…
Exactly. Many of my clients have watched their children surpass their wives/girlfriends/exes in emotional maturity. And, in some cases, we’re talking about 6-year old children surpassing their mothers in maturity and emotional intelligence, accountability and empathy.
My NPD sister has done this to my parents and her husband. She has degrees in business, accounting, environmental science and biology and finally went to work for a governmental agency years ago….where she met her husband. She figured out how to max out sick time, family bereavement, medical leave, etc. until she finally has gotten disability. During the last ten years she has worked there I think she was out more than at work.
Her husband recently got a job that has required them to move 1600 miles away…when I asked my mother how sis was settling in over coffee yesterday morning, she said sis was thinking of going back to school! How many degrees does a person need?
Hubby must be asking her to get a job, is all I can assume.
I’m wondering how long it’s going to take her to come back home into the waiting arms of mummy and daddy. This is really going to put their 12 year “marriage” to the test.
Frankly I hope she finds something she loves at the new town. My brothers and I are enjoying her absence.
Two post-graduate degrees was enough self-inflicted and other-inflicted sadomasochism to last me 3 lifetimes. Have thought about getting a law degree to pay off my 2 psych degrees, but then I’d be . . . a lawyer, which is only marginally worse than being a psychologist
For some people, higher education is just another way to avoid real life and developing into a mature adult. But, on the surface, it looks more productive than other forms of avoidance.
Will her husband be paying out of pocket for her new degree acquisition?
Sounds like you’ve ruled out the law degree. Just in case you haven’t, don’t forget that you’d have to pay that off, too. And the best law degrees (read “only ones worth getting these days”) tend to be the most expensive ones.
TI85, not to worry. The thought of sitting in a classroom again and dealing with the out of control egos and petty fiefdoms of higher ed is enough to make me break out in hives. No way.
I’ll just keep living within my means and accept the fact that I’m basically going to be an indentured servant to the feds/student loan companies for the rest of my life. Just like many of the good men here are indentured servants to entitled exes courtesy of Family Court, Inc.
It is unfortunate that you are struggling with student debt, but try to remember the good things your education brought you. Without the debt, you may not have had the same opportunities.
Also, you could look at things this way: looking back with regret at opportunities lost or misguided implies we could be someone other than who we are. Youth comes with limited ability to foresee long-term consequences of our decisions.
I have a few regrets in my life, including where I chose to live in my mid-30s, as well as allowing my current girlfriend to live with me (which i am in the process of correcting with her eviction in the next few weeks). I don’t really regret getting a now-useless Bachelor’s Degree because that decision was made when I was young.
Insert standing ovation is right! Blistering good article, Dr. T, as usual, but this time the crown goes to Earl. He just gave everyone a supreme lesson in healthy behavior and self respect.
I also want to add an unsolicited opinion for anyone here that is struggling with an opportunistic, lazy and/or abusive wife. If you are not willing to do what Earl has done, then quit, and I mean QUIT! complaining about the way she treats you.
If you don’t have boundaries with people, even your partner or children, then you rob them of any motivation or reason to respect you at all.
I think the way men are raised and socialized in this culture, along with perhaps some biological factors, makes it difficult for them to put a stop to abusive treatment from women. It is something most of us have to learn as an adult. Often the lesson is hard because there are few people that will support us for that kind of decision making. So yeah, it is tough for most of us. But tough is not an excuse.
Everyone deserves respect and reciprocity from people who claim to love them. Those who can’t or won’t insist on decent treatment won’t get it, and it is nobodies fault but their own.
Paul, my SO had a sudden “ah-ha” moment over his wife’s abuse. He realised he had the choice of doing “nothing” and walking away, rather than trying to solve yet another problem she created.
Since then he has been through (still going through) the meat grinder that is the family court. He might be depressed, living in a granny flat, unemployed, alienated from one daughter, but he says he would not go back for the world.
Kind of makes you aware of how bad these relationships are.
Paul, I respectfully disagree on your last statement. People shouldn’t have to demand respect; they shouldn’t have to ask to stop being financially abused, physically abused, emotionally abused. The fact anyone has to insist/demand a stop to abusive behaior is sad.
In addition, many men, including myself, DID demand the respect and DID implement boundaries. This resulted in verbal & physical violence. Many of these women are seriously mentally ill and/or Borderline. You cannot ever earn respect from a Borderline Personality Disordered person. Most experts and lay people agree the best thing to do is get far, far away from the Borderline. Insisting or fighting for respect will only cause you to fall into their trap (Borderlines thrive on getting reactions out of others).
I do agree we need to stand up and battle for our rights as a collective whole.
Bottom line, IMO, you, me, Dr T and every other person on the planet has a fundamental right to be treated decently. Period. Its not the victims fault that sociopaths fail to recognize or respect this right.
I agree. When you set boundaries with them things get even worse and they STILL don’t respect the boundaries. In fact i think it gives them a goal to strive for. I’ve never met people like these Borderlines before…….strange strange.
I’ll disagree (and agree with Paul). I’m not sure that “insist[ing] on decent treatment” is limited to verbal “demand[s for] respect,” as your response implies, cuatezon. Sometimes it means respecting yourself enough to walk away from those who treat you like objects despite your attempts to model adult behavior, and surround yourself with people who actually understand that being in a relationship requires occasionally accommodating the other person by adjusting your own behavior towards them.
At some point, it’s probably better for each of us to stop shouting at the rain and either put up an umbrella or move indoors.
Our (my?) main problem with this advice tends to arise from the belief that the rain is the only water that there is to drink.
Thanks TI85, I understand your perspective. I guess I see ‘walking away’ as an exit strategy more than a demand for respect, i.e., the last alternative. There are many situations where people are unable to walk away from bullies/sociopaths, e.g., children w/ BPD parents, kids stuck in a classroom with bullies, unemployed individual who has nowhere to go and stuck with the BPD for the time being, etc.
Whether its just emotional weakness, depression, insecurity, some unknown defect of the abused person (think of autistic-spectrum people like Aspbergers, folks who simply often do not have the emotional capability to defend themselves despite being highly functioning intellectually). It may not necessarily be a matter of self respect, but other pieces that we do not fully understand.
I agree being assertive and standing up for ourselves is ideal – but that’s different from walking away or exiting the relationship. My two cents worth on this anyway.
Dr. T.,
Sadly there are some judges who will see themselves as the white knight coming to the rescue from the mean ogars such as Jham and Earl. If they are unfortunate enough to get one of these judges, a wife can actually be rewarded for bad behavior. With my divorce, the employment evaluator said that my ex admitted to her that she was not trying to get a job (even after an earlier judge gave her a stern warning to do so) and that she didn’t feel that she should have to get a job. The Dishonorable Mr. White Knight judge, just told her that the evaluators comments were just too cavilier and that she should just try to do the best that she can. When she spent money out of the joint accounts and eventually cleaned them out, the judge said that this is her lifestyle which she had become accustomed to. When I said that I had really tightened my belt during this same time because I realized that during the divorce process our expenses had doubled and my income had stayed the same, Judge White Knight said that I seemed to be able to make do with my new meager existance. Thoughout my almost three years in the court system, my ex was asked by family court services and each judge if she was doing alright and if she was doing fine. During this entire time she was living in the same house, receiving support checks from me, and cleaning out the joint accounts. During this same time, I was living in a very humble rental with an air mattress, a camping chair and a cardboard box for a table. During this entire time in the court system, NO ONE ever asked me how I was doing. No one. My experience with my white knight judge is that bad behaviour can sometimes be rewarded and the responsible can often be made to pay for the irresponsible. It was explained to me that “The judge has a lot of discretion in this area.” I believe that this is code for the judge can do whatever the hell that he wants regardless of what the law says that he should do. It’s my opinion that these types of white knight judges are real dangers to society. The are not being judges and using the law, logic, and reason to guide their decisions, but rather just playing god.
George
George,
you have my sympathy. Unfortunately the system is rigged from the get-go. The entire family law system is more or less designed to shield (mostly) women from the consequences of their irresponsible and antisocial behavior. Just the fact that a woman who divorces her husband without any cause whatsoever can soak him for child support and alimony on any level is, in my view, patently unfair. The natural consequences of being a financial parasite, then kicking the host to the curb, are that you find your own means of support, find a new host, or starve. The court system takes away those natural consequences, making the decision for (mostly) women to jettison their husbands and destroy their families a relatively pain-free one, and incentivizes them to burn down their marriages instead of growing up, taking responsibility for their own behavior, and making it work.
Extremely well written explanation on why these types of women are encouraged to act this way.
Welcome to S4M, Crazybait.
Thanks Dr. T. Been lurking for some time. One of the best sites on the net for dealing with BPD women. Perhaps you have commented on this before but would like to ask something. You have a lot of great insight on these types of people…..did you encounter someone in your own personal life like this? Or did you learn about it through your professional experiences with them? Either way it puts you at a great advantage for dealing with them and helping those of us that arent positive for the BPD “disease”. With your experience you would be great as a court mediator in high conflict divorces. In my state you dont have to be lawyer I believe.
We give the judges too much credit sometimes. Many times they handle these women with kid gloves simply because they feel sorry for them or they just can’t picture her doing anything bad because she is pretty, bats her eyes, will cry, etc. Usually the older judges are more prone to this way of thinking. The younger ones are less likely to believe the poor little housewife routine but it does still happen too much.
No good deed goes unpunished in family court as i have learned.
Every good deed can be twisted in a way that can punish you in family court. If you make an extra effort in some fashion, you can be forced to make an extra effort for the rest of your life. If she makes no effort, you can be made to maintain her “no effort” lifestyle because this is the standard of living that she has become accustomed to. At the end of the day, the judge gets to decide and you will have virtually no recourse. He does not need to provide any explanation. He can just say that this is the way it shall be. In fact, the less explanation he provides, the less grounds you will have for any appeal! He does not need to say what laws he used, logic or reasoning, or even what evidence he used in his decision.
Oh my goodness, yes. My STBX made it her mission in life to spend every dime I made and then some, racking up tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt – on my credit cards no less – which I was fully expected to pay for. Where she thought all the extra money was supposed to come from, I have no idea. I should have put the kibosh on this early, but to my shame I did not out of desire not to be the “bad guy.” I didn’t have the knowledge that I have now (thank you, Dr. T!) to realize this was nothing less than financial abuse and that I didn’t have to take it. It was out of a sense of obligation, and maybe fear, that I didn’t cut off her access. Obviously I can’t go back and change it now, but I damn sure won’t let anybody do that to me ever again.
Much congratulations and admiration go to Earl and jham for having the stones to draw a line in the sand and put an end to their wives’ loafing and financially exploitative behavior. I’m glad it worked out for both of them, although as Dr. T pointed out this can go very badly very quickly so you have to be careful implementing this strategy. Still, way to go guys!
Love the brass balls pic, by the way. We can all do with more of that!
“My suspicion is that she made herself out to be more successful than she was during their courtship and the truth about her career came out after the marriage. ”
My ex used to regale me with tales of the glamorous job she had as an executive assistant with a well-known New York retailer. To hear her tell it, she was the vital cog that made the whole office operate. However, the entire time we were together (five years!) she never held a job for more than two weeks. Her explanation was always a variant of “it wasn’t as good as my New York job”, the job that she supposedly gave up to move to Florida to be with me.
I found out later that she only worked there a few months, and part time at that. She lived with her father, who paid all of her expenses, and she had in fact quit the job months before she met me. The reason she had hooked up with me was because her father had kicked her out for being a layabout; she had been staying with a friend but the friend was also about to kick her out for eating them out of house and home and not contributing a dime.
A word of caution to Jham and Earl: when my ex decided that I wasn’t providing for her lifestyle sufficiently, she started forging my signature on credit card applications. Fortunately, I had at that point already initiated the divorce and had legally separated our finances, so I was able to deflect most of the creditors. I still wound up stuck with about $8000 (1991 dollars, about $15K in today’s dollars) in bills for cards that she took out before I filed. I had to pay those off (and of course I had no money since she had cleaned out our accounts), but I figured it would cost more than that to fight it in court, and my lawyer agreed with me. I bolted down, lived an extremely frugal lifestyle for about eight months, and paid them all off in that time.
We’ve been divorced for 22 years, and she is still representing herself as my wife in places. I started getting calls from a collection agency last spring. When I finally managed to get them on the phone in person, I told the guy that she was my ex. He was very nice about it; he apologized for the calls, and just asked me if I could give him the date that the decree became final. I offered to fax him a copy of the decree, but he said that with the date he could look it up and didn’t need any more information. That was the end of the phone calls, so I guess he found it. He didn’t seem surprised at all. I guess this is something that collection agencies probably have to deal with all the time. It’s creepy, though, to think that my ex that I’ve had no contact with since 1991 knows my where I live, given that the house and neighborhood that I live now in didn’t exist the last time we had any contact.
Anyway, Jham and Earl, do be watching your mail for any unfamiliar credit card or online bills.