30 Responses to “Female Stalkers, Part 3: The Case of the Ex-Girlfriend Who Won’t Take ‘No’ for an Answer”

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  1. Ron On Drums

    Like you Dr Tara, I would be willing to bet ANYTHING that she had that key the whole time or at least knew where it was. This woman is using emotional blackmail to the EXTREME. Girls like this seem to prey on “Nice Guys”. Why? Because they know that they are easy to manipulate. They know that they can play the Damsel in Distress & their white knight will come riding in on his white horse to save her. I know this because I AM that nice guy who was taken advantage of.

    Today I am indeed a blessed man in that I found a wonderful woman who would appreciate that “nice guy” in me, treasure it & NOT take advantage of it. Also because after dealing with a BPD I gained the strength to stand up for myself & not allow myself to be taken advantage of. BPD women (& men also) are preditors. They seek out “nice guys” that they can easliy manipulate & bend to their will. The exact same is true of male abusers. They seek out women who are targets.

    Although we rarely agree with Dr Phil here he did once say some things that made sense. He had a guest who wanted to know why she “always ended up with abusers” & wondered why she seems to “seek them out”. He put forth something I had never thought of. It is basicly that it isn’t that the victim “seeks out” abusers, jerks etc. It is that the abusers, jerks etc seek THEM out. It was kind of a light bulb moment. Just look at the fact that Muggers, Rapist, Purse Snatchers etc seek out easy marks. It would stand to reason that BPD’s & abusers do the same. Anyway I found it interesting.

    I am SO with Dr Tara. STOP the drinking!!! I used to enjoy it when I was young too. But as I look back on those years how much stupid behavior came about as a result? It’s not worth it. Also think if she is willing to threaten suicide how easy would it be for her to decide to take you with her. The perfect time would be when you have been drinking. Although I SERIOUSLY doubt that she actually has any real intention of suicide. That is just more emotional blackmail. DON’T fall for it.

    I do wish you the best Josh
    Ron :-)

    • dietrich

      “Girls like this seem to prey on “Nice Guys”. Why? Because they know that they are easy to manipulate.”

      Dr. Glover’s “No more Mr. nice guy” is an excellent book that relates this concept well…

  2. david

    Josh,
    Sorry to hear you are going through this…do WHATEVER you have to do to distance yourself from her and “mutual friends”. As I read on a site the other day, “Cut Off Anyone Who Is Not Loyal To You”. I’m telling you, these people are as dangerous and toxic to you as she is just by being unaware or in denial. Believe me, I know the feeling of “acts totally different around others”.
    Be prepared for the long haul….I have been dealing with this sort of behavior for a year and a half (although my BPD was not at all suicidal). The last couple months have been relatively quiet but it takes its toll on you. The last several weeks have been very frustrating and I have dealt with anger on my part (not had that in a while). I’m a pretty tough guy and jog, workout, eat good food and get massages on a regular basis. Take it easy on that drink. You are going to need every ounce of judgment and clarity.
    It sounds like you have a stalker that is more “in your face” and quite “out of control”. This can be a good thing and as Dr. Tara mentioned, if you have police that are willing to do something about it, you’re not behind the eight ball. My stalker is VERY methodical, high functioning and knows/has enough control to stay out of sight and trouble.
    If moving is an option…DO IT! And cover your tracks. Disappearing is the best option sometimes.
    Stay strong. You’re not alone. As I told a friend the other day, “I REALLY would not wish something like this on my worst enemy”.

    • Dr Tara J. Palmatier

      Stay safe, David. The covert ones are definitely more dangerous and harder to catch.

      • david

        I will. This coming Monday will be the longest I have gone without any incidents or problems. I feel this is getting better. Funny thing, this lady is extremely attractive…you would think she could find a million guys (or gals) to occupy her time with.
        One thing I would like to add. I was speaking with a person the other day and through our conversation, I came up with an idea. As I said before, when something doesn’t happen for a month and a half or so, and then you have an incident, most people blow it off as “coincidence” or your “over-reacting”. What I imagined was a “time line” with little red flags. From the beginning of what I thought was unusual or stalking behavior (even before I ended my relationship with her) to now. When you see the length of the time line, compared to the “little red flags” along the way, you see that a month and a half of no contact or harrasment is NOTHING when looked at in the context of the overall time frame that things have been going on.
        I hope this makes sense.

  3. exscapegoat

    I second Dr. T’s advice to call 911 (or the regional equivalent) in the event of suicide threats. I don’t know if she has a PD or not, but my friend’s mom use to manipulate her and her siblings with suicide threats. My friend went to college out of town and one weekend when she pulled that, my friend’s siblings were out of town as well. When she couldn’t find anyone to check on her mom, she called the police to do so and she was held for a mandatory psychiatric evaluation. I think it was for 72 hours. Her mother never pulled that stunt on them again.

    If the person is serious about attempting suicide, he or she needs professional psychiatric help and a hospital is the best place for him or her to be. If they’re doing it to manipulate people, they’re sick in a different way and still need help. And maybe they’ll stop trying to manipulate people like that.

  4. Lovekraft

    Josh, young man, you are a sucker. Sure, sex is exciting and alluring, as your entire body/brain is hardwired to desire it. So you must be patient, develop a core philosphy/religion/worldview that rises above these base physical desires.

    She is a lost cause and is clinging to you like a parasite. She is likely going to continue this behavior all her miserable life and you only have yourself to blame if you get dragged into her psychosis.

    Take Dr Tara’s advice. Put your foot down, make reminder notes, consult friends and MOST IMPORTANTLY: stand up for yourself.

    • Dr Tara J. Palmatier

      Josh is seeking support. He already feels bad enough, as evidenced in his emails, so let’s not kick him while he’d down. Okay, everyone?

      Thanks,
      Dr Tara

  5. gooberzzz

    Hi Josh. I hope you are okay. That is quite a challenging chain of events.

    I second Dr. T’s opinion about the restraining order, as well as her other advice. If your ex is this vocal about hurting herself she may have the inclination and impulse to physically, or even fatally, hurt you. In her disordered mind she may feel she has no other choice left. Remember Phil Hartman?

    The comment that ‘david’ made above about cutting ties with people that have no loyalty to you is spot on. He is right, those who are in denial, and/or will not stand firmly in your corner, are a liability to you. If you happen to run into them and they call you out on it, you may consider saying….”My attorney has advised me not to discuss her, or any personal details about my life, with common acquaintances until further legal advisement.” They’ll get the message, and by proxy, she might too.

    Best of luck ‘Josh’ and email Dr. T., so she know’s you’re okay.

    Peace.

  6. arneg

    Josh – I wish you all the best. Been there – done that.

    Normal people like ourselves are programmed by normal society and normal parents and decent childhood experiences that when someone is in [need/pain/trouble/whatever] that we support them. We reach out and assist in the knowledge that this is a temporary issue and things will be right again soon.

    The problem is that these people don’t think like us and they take full advantage of that fact. Compassion is a key missing ingredient here.

    Next time someone tries that “I’ve got the knife all picked out and ready” thing – right there on the spot [and in front of them if you can] dial 911 and tell the operator that this person is about to commit suicide and the police better come right away and protect this woman from herself – Give them her name/address/phone numbers…. then walk away.

    1. Maybe they will get help.
    2. You’ve call their bluff right in their face
    3. This adds to you pile of evidence on the restraining order thing.

    Run Forest – Run.

  7. Sad State

    Josh,

    You need a digital recorder. While there are state-specific legalities involved, it is perfectly legal to record a conversation – the question is whether it will be admisable in court. But court is not the purpose. When she threatens suicide, play it back to the police/ambulance when they arive. When she threatens to harm you or stalk you, play it back to the police. When your friends don’t believe you, play back a few minutes. The recording takes it out of the realm of he said/she said. These women are expert manipulators and often get other people on their side because there is no offsetting evidence.

    Also, in reading your story, my first thought about waking up with her after blacking out was “roofies”.

    • Dr Tara J. Palmatier

      Sad Sate, I wondered the same thing (re: rufies). Josh, if you read this, you may want to consider a hair follicle drug test. You couldn’t necessarily prove she did it, but, if I were you, it’s something I’d want to know.

      • Cousin Dave

        Dr. T, that bit jumped out at me too. Josh, if you’re watching this thread: You have to consider the possibility that if she gets that kind of access to you, she can poison you. If you find yourself in her presence again, do not eat or drink *anything* that she has had access to.

    • david

      Digital recorder. I second this! In so many ways, if you are being stalked, you are in a “war of attrition”. The more resources you have at your disposal, the better your odds. I know it is difficult…but focus on, if God forbid, you have to interact with her, not to “blow up” or verbally resort to screaming or falling into the “blame game” conversation with her. As a friend of mine stated, “It’s like shooting free throws….go over it in your mind on how you will react, just in case”.

  8. Sad State

    I try not to post right after my own post, but just tonight I saw a commercial that addresses this very issue.

    It shows a woman in a tree in a storm talking about how great her first date was with this guy. Turns out, she’s in the tree that looks into the window of this guy sleeping in his room. It is a commercial for how great this phone is for stalking – it checks Facebook, it sends texts, it monitors e-mails, etc.

    While they do make her “crazy”, they do it in a way that is only humorous, not the psycho-scary it really is.

  9. MK

    She “lost” her key in his car!!! Priceless :))))))))

  10. Marshall Stack

    Someone who’s serious about suicide isn’t going to tighten a scarf around their neck. Even if you manage to hold it long enough to pass out, you’ll lose your grip on the scarf and start breathing again.

    Not that that makes her any less of a threat, of course. She needs help, but it’s not Josh’s responsibility to help her OR get help for her. He’s gotten some great advice on how to help himself, which I hope he uses! I wish him the best!

  11. dietrich

    @ Dr. T: “Even if she’s making suicide threats, it’s not your problem. You’re not a mental health professional.”

    What if you are? O_o

    I handled my situation the best I could, and no one got hurt…but being a licensed professional and having to deal with these issues in your personal life can be a double whammy!

    As for Josh, he definitely needs to call the cops. Her behavior is unpredictable & dangerous. I’m not too surprised they didn’t arrest her for the car thing. She would’ve been hauled off to jail where I live.

  12. Mark

    Had and ex show up at my house wanting the gun she bought me back. I called the Police and let her yell at me through a locked door. The one call to the police was enough to get her out of my life. Gave the local PD the gun to dispose of or give back to her…with a court order. I think they still have it.
    She made threats to kill herself, kill me, set the house on fire, etc.

    Josh…
    If you think you are drinking that much check yourself into rehab. She can’t get to you there and you can get your head together. Not saying you are an alcoholic. Take it as neutral advice and a possible bit of relief.

    GO. TO. COURT. Talk to your States’ attorney’s (district attorney, same thing) victim / witness office and get the restraining order. Do not let them tell you no. Push until someone in the office says yes.

    If she shows up call the Police by 911. All incoming 911 calls are recorded. If the dispatcher can’t hear anything or hears yelling and screaming the Police are on the way. If a landline your address comes up. Cell phone 911 calls are automatically sent with the GPS in your phone turned on. Dispatch pings your phone and the police are on the way.

    Good luck brother. Don’t quit.

  13. Closure at last

    What a harrowing, scary story!!

    “I haven’t heard from Josh in over two weeks. I wonder if his ex harassed him into dating her again, if he called the cops or if she’s still stalking him? I sent an email to check in on him, but haven’t heard back.” Dr. T, if you do know he is safe – please let us know when you get a chance. I think we all worry for him now, especially given how overtly psychotic his stalker is.

    I’d been stalked twice in my life – the first was a serial stalker who did it to many other girls in university as well – those who had a certain brunette ‘look’ resembling his first love – so I was not alone. But he was a male BPD who it seemed had attempted suicide before and he had many other victims he’d stalked.

    The second time was from my own first boyfriend who had BPD and after two years of complete silence and disappearance, suddenly showed up outside the window of my ground floor apartment in my new city with a 20 page long letter and flowers and all sorts of talk proclaiming he’d lost ‘the love of his life’ and a proposal to marry. (I was securely 18 months into a new nice relation, I told him so, but it didn’t deter him – talk of no boundaries!)He had tracked my address down through my landline and 411. And this is a man who is a university professor!! In the letter there was also a detailed suicide scenario on how he hoped to kill himself with my picture next to him etc. if I refused to go back to him. And he showed up outside my apt. a few more times. I was completely traumatized and not knowing what to do (didn’t know of BPD then) told everything and showed the letter to my then boyfriend (with who I had a great stable relation and would go on to be together for many years). My new partner was a lawyer, so what he did was e-mail a polite, efficient level-headed and absolutely no-nonsense stern letter with plenty of legal jargon telling Mr. BPD how wrong his actions were and if he could not understand that his behaviour constituted stalking, he would be reported to his university’s dean. That was it. Mr. BPD-ex stopped harassing after (of course) sending me a few horrible insulting parting mails. (A final idealization-devaluation I was subjected to). But at least he left us alone after that.

    But female stalker BPDs are 20 times more tenacious.

    A good friend and classmate of mine back in university was relentlessly stalked by his ex. Suicide threats, tears – all the works. When all his reasoning failed to deter her persistence and drama, he told her he was dating someone else to put her off. He asked me to pretend to be his girlfriend and walk out next to his side in front of that girl. Stupid us didn’t know of BPD then. The girl’s wrath now transferred to me and it was awful, awful, awful. (I won’t write in detail all the shit that followed, and how the psycho came in our architecture building and tore and vandalized drawings from our drafting tables) Also, she was from a country where acid attacks were a common form of revenge in its rural areas, though she herself was an urban, educated woman. My friend (with his usual Canadian ‘niceness’) had been stupid enough to try to be the ‘white knight’ helping ‘suppressed woman’ though he did like her a lot for her own qualities before her ‘craziness’ appeared. Trust me, BPD, HPD occur all over the world – it’s a human condition, not a geographic or ethnic one. Of course, now anything he did for his self-defense was wrongly attributed to ‘racism’ though he is not only not racist, but one of the kindest, most non-judgmental persons in the world.
    I was shit-scared when the girl walked up angrily to me the following week when I was alone, called me many expletives and then told me (my blood still chills when I remember this – though it occurred years back in 1999)- that she’d destroy my face if she saw me with ‘her man.’ I was terrified and told my male buddy that as much as I felt sad for his situation, I feared for my own safety due to his nutty ex and could no longer pretend to be his ‘new girlfriend’ to throw his ex off. A ‘new girlfriend’ excuse makes it worse and incites the anger of crazy BPDs even more.

    Lesson: Women BPDs like Josh’s girlfriend are extremely dangerous, tenacious and never give up their chase and hoovering tactics (which at least the male BPDs stop, after yelling some final demeaning words.) Also, to the guys here, for the sake of any future stable women you may be with, DO NOT talk of a new girlfriend in front of a crazy girl. The innocent new girl then becomes a target and is put through hell and stalking too.

    Restraining orders are the best with proof (those camera pens are great.)

    And of course, Dr. Tara’s advice to handle all these crazy women is SPOT-ON. No excuses. No frills. No ‘compassion’ (there are plenty of poor children in the world and abused animals you can show that compassion to. Really.) “Once you let this type of person back into your life; you have to move heaven and earth to get them back out, so it’s better to give them no access at all” – Dr. T” So, SO true.

  14. Freedom

    I saw in a previous post – about a year and a half ago – a similar situation about a guy dating a girl who was threatening suicide. The woman even went so far as to say that her therapist believes that it was all his fault and that the therapist told the girl that she should tell him about her suicidal thoughts, so that it may snap him into attention. whether or not the girl actually had these conversations… the whole scenario screamed YIKES!!!

    but that example is similar to your example. the girl can come into a situation and manipulate it to obtain results that put her in the positive and you in the negative. most dating relationships don’t last for 3 months because the people in the relationship can only “fake it” for about that long, and then get discovered for who they are and what they stand for, and then the relationship takes a nosedive. in your case, i’m assuming the girl only sees these other mutual friends for a short time, therefore she can keep up the facade easily for that long. but time will tell and eventually they will see her for who she really is. by that time you will have been long gone and the “i’m sorry, you were right” that you get from them might bring you a bit of closure, but also may seem like a hollow victory since you already knew, tried to show them ,and they refused to believe it. as Dr. T has pointed out time after time, these people are master manipulators.

    i had a co-worker of mine who was doing these things to his girlfriend – stalking, suicide threats, he even took a baseball bat to her car, then denied the whole thing. one night while she and i were talking about all of this he sends her several text messages claiming that he was gonna kill himself. so i hung up the phone and called the police. believe it or not they came to his door for the second time (she’d called a previous day/time) and he was STILL able to talk himself out of it. the police let him go. and he learned nothing, other than how to get his way and avoid any major consequences. so the fact that the police ARE willing to take this situation seriously is certainly a feather in your cap. as Dr. T states… USE IT.

    i can certainly sympathize with your plight. nobody is worth dying over, and even if it did happen and it were an accident (something went wrong while she was trying to get attention) it still has you involved, even tho it is totally her decision and action to take. its not easy going thru that, and she knows it. she’s willing to use whatever she can to get to you. desperation…

    but you NEED to lay off the booze. right now especially because you’re probably gonna need your wits with you at all times. any time she can get to you emotionally (booze is a dis-inhibiter) to tug at your heart strings, anytime she can get to you personally (he was drinking when A, B, C happened and he caused it or did nothing to stop it), anytime she can get to you mentally (no more black-outs because any lapse in memory right now could come back to bite you – gee, Your Honor, i don’t remember that happening cuz i’d had a few that night”). Its tempting to blow off steam, and it sucks that you gotta do what you can to stave off any attack (thereby she still has some measure of control), but right now this is much more important. There will be plenty of time to celebrate after its finished. stay calm, stay awake in all areas, stay in touch…

    all my best…
    Freedom

  15. Tom

    Virgin Mobile Commercials that illustrate the “Stalking Girl”

  16. lamontcoleman

    Hey guys,

    Josh here. I really appreciate everyone’s support and advice; this is truly a tough time for me, and I can’t express enough how fantastic it feels to hear from people who are both on my side and willing to share similar experiences. Although I regret to admit the crazy girl in question is still not out of the picture, things are considerably better. There haven’t been any ridiculously crazy episodes since what I told Dr T, and she is starting to come to terms with not being able to get me back.

    Lately, she says she needs closure, so she keeps scheduling dinner meetings with me, that I continue to cancel or otherwise find ways out of. The only reason I haven’t followed the advice of most people on this blog to get a restraining order against her, is that I see that as a huge blow to her, which could in all likelihood send her into a blind violent rage. I’m not stupid (at least not anymore) so I know that “getting closure” is just another BS excuse to see me and employ some more psycho tactics at getting me back into her life. I really want to be able to get out of this without significant police intervention, but I also understand that theres a very high chance that’ll be the road I have to go down. She’s not the type to obey a law like a restraining order, as her emotions tend to supersede both laws and social norms. I know if I get a restraint and she’s in a rage about it, I’ll be looking over my shoulder every time I leave/enter my apartment and/or work, which sucks but I likely won’t have a better alternative.

    Unfortunately one of the main things I taught her in life is that anything is possible if you put your mind to it. She applies this lesson to being able to get me back. Who would have thought that instilling such a positive message in someone would end up biting me in the ass so bad later on.

    I also find it interesting how someone could persist this long. She has been blocked on facebook all along, and consistently ignored otherwise. Personally, if someone blocked me and ignored me for so long I’d be pretty insulted, and rationalize that the person clearly didn’t deserve me. Oh wait, I said “rationalize”. How naive of me to assume that her feeble brain even knows that term ;)

    Anyway, thanks again guys and girls, and if anyone is interested I can come back and update you if/when I’m out of the woods.

    • Cousin Dave

      Josh, if you have a meal with her, please be extremely careful about your food and drink. We were just speculating on the previous page of comments that she drugged you once before, that time that you woke up in bed with her and didn’t remember how you got there. Keep in mind that if she can drug you, she can poison you. Do not eat or drink anything that she has had access to.

    • david

      Josh, we all have our ways to deal with things but I want to share some advice with you that a good friend of mine (in the clinical field told me) last year. With these personality types, ANY form of contact is seen as “hope” that they will get what they want. He compared it to a heroin addict. It can actually be worse, in the long run, by having sporadic contact..even over the course of months or years. Although they don’t get it as often, the strength of the urge to have it grows stronger every time. By prolonging it, it makes the situation more volatile and dangerous.
      Be extremely careful. Again, I would suggest NO CONTACT, starting right now.

  17. Mark

    Josh,

    Get the restraining order. Please give the nice policeman the tool he needs to lock this woman up when she goes off line. It is not weakness to get an order against some psycho female.

    Bet there is the “Josh” shrine in her apartment. Voodoo doll, hair clippings, altar, etc. I have seen this in real life. Get the order. Leave town. Run, Josh, run! There are times when running away is the best option.

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