More Thoughts on FOG, Hoovers and No Contact When Ending a Relationship with a Narcissist, Borderline, Histrionic and/or Sociopath
Many of my clients often have difficulty after ending their relationships with an abusive and crazy ex. These men and women torture themselves with self-doubt (Am I doing the right thing?), self-recrimination (Why am I so stupid? Why did I put up with her/his behavior for so long? Why did I have kids with that sadistic lunatic?) and second-guessing (If only I’d done this; What if I’d said that?)
These thoughts and feelings are a natural byproduct of being in an abusive relationship. It’s no secret that abusive personalities groom their targets to — you guessed it — take their abuse. They do this through a variety of methods, however, in order for any of their unconscious and conscious manipulations to work, they first need to envelop you in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).
I also work with individuals who are distraught over seeing a beloved son, brother, grandson and/or friend willingly remain in an abusive relationship. They just don’t understand why their loved ones tolerate the abuse and stay in the relationship. FOG is the intangible glue that keeps many men and women stuck in abusive relationships.
It is often easier for outsiders to see what’s going on because they’re not caught in the disorienting and invalidating mists of an emotional FOG. To a mom, dad, sister, brother or best friend, it can be as clear as day, but when you have your mouth wrapped around the exhaust pipe of the Crazy Fogger 3000 night and day, it’s no wonder you can’t see the forest for the trees. For anyone who’s ever walked or driven in atmospheric fogs, you know that being in a fog can play perceptual tricks on you.
In an atmospheric fog, it’s difficult to see what’s right in front of you. You get turned around and walk in the wrong direction. Objects seem further away than they are. Even sounds can be disorienting. A fog can feel cool and refreshing at first, like when your hiking in the mountains, but then becomes thick and muggy and uncomfortable and suffocating. This can be true of emotional FOG.
After enough time, the FOG may start to feel normal and being out of the FOG may feel strange and unsettling. Once the FOG is the norm, leaving the FOG becomes difficult because of the self-doubt and second guessing an abuser’s FOG induces. If the FOG is combined with a target’s need to be perceived as the Nice Guy/Nice Gal, it’s extremely difficult for the target to break free. Most Nice Guys and Gals have been groomed to believe boundaries are mean and abusive and that taking care of themselves is selfish. See the problem?
For the FOG to be especially effective, many abusers instinctively know to isolate their targets from friends and family members who will help them to reality test and come out of the FOG. Once you get out of the FOG for a length of time, your head will start to clear and you will, hopefully, see things more objectively, which is precisely what a predatory abuser does not want to happen. They want to control you, the narrative, your feelings and your perceptions.
Even if your abuser doesn’t want you back immediately, she will expect you to be there when she comes back around looking for attention, money, triangulation, etc. Many abusers, particularly personality disordered abusers, like to return to prey on their targets over and over again; like animal predators frequent the same hunting grounds until their food sources dry up. They typically do this by employing a series of Hoover tactics.
Ultimately, Hoovers are just another instance of an abusive wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend or ex not respecting your feelings, needs and boundaries. It’s just another way they ignore, invalidate and disrespect you and what you’ve decided is healthiest for YOU. How dare you put your own well-being ahead of their wants and needs no matter how unreasonable and abusive? For shame!
Whether it’s a Psycho Hoover, a Deluxe Hoover, a FOG Hoover or a Happy Ending Hoover, it’s just the Crazy’s way of saying, “Hell no” to your “No.” It’s not about her undying “love” for you. Narcissists, borderlines, histrionics and sociopaths aren’t capable of real love because they will never care about anyone else more than they care for themselves — and they don’t even really seem to care for themselves very much.
Their idea of love seems to be about being able to control their so-called loved ones and how much abuse and crap you will tolerate from them. Naturally, if you’re unwilling to tolerate their abuse and crap, then you don’t really love them. Never mind the fact that if they really loved you, they wouldn’t abuse you, treat you like crap and turn your relationship into a never-ending series of Shit Tests and power struggles.
Coming out of the FOG and shutting off the Hoover
In order to successfully come out of the FOG, you must go No Contact or, if you share children, minimize contact to the the greatest degree possible. Many targets of abuse have difficulty not feeling “needed” and/or have difficulty weaning themselves off the drama. You gotta go cold turkey.
Think of your need to feel needed and/or the excitement from the unhealthy drama as if it’s an addiction and set up social and professional supports for yourself accordingly. These people are poison. You can’t just take a “little hit” and be okay. Any contact after the break-up will put you right back to square negative 3.
I know how painful and excruciating it can be at first after the initial relief of ending the relationship subsides and you begin to miss your ex’s “good” qualities. These overwhelming feelings of loss and “I can’t live without her/It wasn’t that bad/I can take it/What if she’s different with the next guy?/What if I try just a little bit harder to make her happy?/etc.,” are temporary. You will not feel this bad forever — unless, of course, you get back together with her!
Before emailing, calling or responding to her texts, examine your feelings of nostalgia and longing and ask yourself:
- Do I really miss her or the drama?
- What void is her drama filling in my life?
- Do I really miss her or does she provide an endless distraction from dealing with my own issues, which is probably what caused me to become involved with her in the first place?
- Do I really miss and “love” him or am I re-creating a troubled and painful relationship from my childhood (e.g., with a parent) and insisting on a different outcome with an equally damaged person who is just as incapable of being in a healthy, reciprocal relationship as the individual(s) who caused me the original damage?
- Do I really miss her or the fantasy woman she portrayed herself to be when we first met?
- Do I have unrealistic fantasies about meeting a perfect woman or man who will meet all of my needs all the time, which is why I fell for her or him during the love bombing stage?
- Is this because I didn’t receive enough unconditional love and positive regard from my parents when I was a child?
- Is this what attracted me to her and, if so, how can I work through these issues and love myself enough so I am no longer vulnerable to emotional predators?
The Good News
If you can go 4 to 8 weeks and maintain strong boundaries and No Contact, it is very likely the FOG will lift, you will get over the hump and real healing can begin. Any contact with your ex after the break-up runs the risk of putting you back in the FOG, rubbing salt in your wounds and delaying your recovery. It also gives her the opportunity to “Oops” you (“accidental” pregnancy), exploit you (financially and/or emotionally) and/or, heaven forbid, make a false allegation of abuse against you. *By the way, false allegations of abuse can happen to female targets, too. I have worked with women to whom this has happened. Persuasive blamers of both sexes seem to follow the same playbook, unfortunately.
More importantly, 30 to 60 days of No Contact will (hopefully) propel your ex to seek a new source of narcissistic supply and will (hopefully) give you enough time to realize you can live without the CB and that you’re actually starting to feel better without her.
Not all abusers will move on in 30 to 60 days. I have a client right now who is on month 6 of attempted Hoovers and his ex is escalating. The first 3 weeks were hard for him. He was feeling guilty and worried that he was being “mean” by not replying. I had him agree to a “contract” to continue NC for 3 more weeks. He did it and he got over the hump.
Now, instead of feeling guilty or like a “bad guy,” he is increasingly dismayed by her lack of boundaries and her unwillingness to accept and respect his “No.” Enough time and distance out of the FOG and most people have a very different perspective on their ex’s behaviors.
It will take 6 to 8 weeks for the FOG to lift (give or take); maybe longer, depending upon the length of the relationship and the severity of the trauma you suffered. However, the FOG will never lift if you continue to wrap your mouth around the exhaust pipe of the FOG machine.
FOG can be emotionally as toxic as carbon monoxide is physically toxic and Hoovers aren’t about love; they’re just another boundary violation. Fear, obligation and guilt suck. Hoovers suck, too, so don’t be a sucker. Go No Contact. Odds are you will be very glad you did sooner than you think.
Shrink4Men Coaching and Consultation Services:
Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.
129 Responses to “More Thoughts on FOG, Hoovers and No Contact When Ending a Relationship with a Narcissist, Borderline, Histrionic and/or Sociopath”
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Wow right on time Dr. Tara! This was a needed read. It’s been 1 yr and 4 months since I went no contact with my crazy ex. It’s still been challenging but I’ve made much progress since last year. I did contact her because I owed her a sum of money and she threatened me. I sent her the payment and then she also wanted some of her things that she gave me back( total hoover moment). I was a bit hurt when I learned of her moving on less than a month after I walked away from her but, good riddance and I pray for the guy she’s with now!
My friend is going to go with me to give her things back other wise I’m free from all that. Much of the struggles I have are just replaying the events in my head and dealing with the fears that came with all of the craziness. I don’t like living in shame and fear. I would like to date again but I’m still a bit afraid and my confidence is up to it. I keep having doubts and think that the next person I date will think less of me as well as I ashamed of talking about my past. (which is why I don’t understand how people like her(abusers) can just get another person dating them so easily and us normal folk struggle.
Hi Martin,
Glad to be of help. There’s a new slogan in there somewhere:
Friends don’t let friends meet up with crazy, abusive exes unchaperoned!
I think it’s very wise of you to bring a friend along. Hopefully, she will be on good behavior since you will have a witness.
I suggest you send your friend alone with her things and you stay home.
JP
Great suggestion, JP.
I’m new here. I saw some mentions in the comments that their BPD girlfiend/Ex wanted to know everything about them. When my wife and I were dating, she wanted to know everything about me. If I forgot to tell her something she would become enraged and tell me, “I don’t keep anything from you.” When, in reality, I wasn’t keeping anything from her, it was just things I forgot. I worked full time while I went to school to get away from my Narcissist Dad and Histrionic Mother.
Anyway, I was damaged goods when I met my wife and she love-bombed me like I had never been love bombed before. Then, suddenly after marriage, kids, and mortgage, I no longer meant anything to her. It’s been tough. I will give more details later. I’m just curious about the wanting to know everything detail.
This is so true and helpful. I’m two months into getting kicked out (I have two small kids I was forced to explain this to) and it took about one week for every trick in the book to lure me back in. After three weeks of daily painful conversations and every promise in the book, I promised myself no more contact unless it was scheduling time with the kids. Its amazing how differently you see things after 8 weeks. I’m still apparently the spawn of satan for leaving “me and the kids” but I can choose not to hear that every day. For those of you in this situation, write down every single belittling incident and inexplicable anger directed toward you. You’ll need to remember exactly what it is they’re trying to draw you back into. It is still a little frightening, but less frightening than the idea of being in that situation for the rest of your life.
Fantastic article.
Thanks, Ralph! I appreciate the kind feedback.
Spot on for me as well. Especially all the questions doubt. It made me realize that I should maintain the no contact, because I was still doubting her craziness. (No one is ever 100% crazy 100% of the time…)
Thanks for this site.
As the FOG is lifted, so is the writer’s block.
One hopes.
It’s frightening how thick the FOG can get in a 25+ year relationship with a BPD. It was especially blinding when alcoholism was added to the mix, because until just recently, I was unaware of BPD and attributed my ex’s bizarre and destructive behavior to alcoholism alone, never realizing that the two maladies fed and magnified each other to become humongous monsters dwelling inside her.
Of course, in order to survive in such a perpetually foggy and dangerous environment, I slowly evolved into a co-dependent creature that could not only navigate through a constantly changing thorny labyrinth of her lies, unfounded accusations, paranoid delusions, and shockingly painful insults, but I could also do an impressive tap dance on hummingbird eggs without denting or cracking them. When I look back on the situation, I’m horrified at the twisted creature I had become, and it was more painful to realize that I had undergone my agonizing transformation just to continue a marriage with a dark hearted and supremely selfish woman who most likely never loved me in the first place, and is probably incapable of having a normal loving relationship. It may be too late to change back into the dynamic, athletic, accomplished, and very popular individual I was before I met my ex, there are some injuries so severe that you just never recover from them.
It would be wonderful at this point if I could have absolutely no contact, or nothing to do with my ex, but we still share custody of our 15 year old son, and she maliciously uses him as a conduit through which she can continue her assault and drama games in her strangely never-ending battle to destroy me, my relationship with the kids, and my reputation in the small island community where we live. There seems to be no end to her efforts, it’s been seven years since we separated COMPLETELY, yet she still seems obsessed with my complete and utter destruction. She uses my deep love for our children as the sharpest blade in her arsenal, and she would cut right through them to get at my throat.
I found this site today because I’m currently trying to find ideas and support to deal with the latest crisis my ex has crafted, she has taken my 15 year old even though the parenting plan dictates that he’s to be with me the entire month of July. My son was being disciplined for inarguable transgressions, and rather than accept his well deserved consequences, he called her and asked her to pick him up. Is this what you would call a “Hoover” maneuver?
I’m now compelled to respond to this latest outrage by either; 1. Demand by email to return my son. 2. Go to court and get a court order to enforce the parenting plan, and risk getting involved again with a legal system that is extremely biased toward mothers, such that the entire effort could backfire. Or 3. Walk away from my son in order to further sever ties with my profoundly evil ex. I’ve grown emotionally and physically exhausted from waging an endless battle to have a warm and normal relationship with my son, and suppose I must start to consider how much that relationship is worth. It’s certainly not worth my sanity.
Hello Swan Song,
Thank you for registering with S4M and welcome. Combine alcoholism with BPD and you get the psychological equivalent of Hurricane Katrina on steroids.
I’m not surprised she’s still obsessed with your destruction. Many of these types hold onto anger and grudges like a dog with a bone. Some really do seem to feed off anger and hatred. It’s also not uncommon for them to use shared children as weapons. They have an uncanny knack for going after you with what will hurt most.
I would call what your ex did with your son piss poor parenting. She is doing him no favors by not upholding consequences for bad behavior. It’s also probably part of her alienation campaign. Your son is just being a 15-year old who is going to where he won’t get into trouble for his misbehavior. A good parent would say, “No dice, kiddo. If you did x, you need to face the consequences.”
My advice is to never deviate from a court order when dealing with someone like your ex. However, you do need to factor in your local court system. If they have a track record of looking the other way when mom does something, it can become an exercise in futility. Will the threat of taking her to uphold the CO and the threat of suing for costs be enough for her to send your son back?
Walking away from your child is, in my opinion, the last resort choice. How PAS’d is he and is he in counseling for it?
Thank you so much for your most helpful and insightful considerations, you obviously have an excellent grasp of the dynamics involved in PD fueled family destruction.
At this point, I’m not sure about the level of alienation, but she has been pounding away at him since our separation more than seven years ago when he was 8, and bless his heart, he has strongly resisted her PA until recently. At that time, my two oldest kids, a 15 yo son and a 14 yo daughter, immediately enlisted in her army with the “It’s either your Dad or me” ultimatum and the PAS with both of them seemed horribly instantaneous. Of course, it only seemed instantaneous, my ex had clearly been working on them for years, and what I thought to be normal teenage issues and difficulties were actually the manifestations of their mother’s campaign to dehumanize and demonize me in their eyes. The last time I spoke with my daughter, in a counseled session 7 years ago, she stunned me with this horrible account; “Mom says that you forced her into having our little brother because you were disappointed with us, and that we were “duds”". I tearfully tried to explain to her that it was the exact opposite, that I was so thrilled and amazed with my first two kids, that I wanted more, and to my horror, she mockingly laughed at and ridiculed my tears as though she was possessed. In one evil fell swoop, my ex had destroyed my relationship with the two oldest kids, and she also planted the seeds of contempt and animosity that the two older kids would have for their little brother. I left that session in a daze; did anyone get the licence plate number of the truck that just hit me?
My oldest son eventually realized after about a year what had happened and who the rat was. Apparently, since I was out of the picture, my ex turned her venom on him, calling him an asshole and that he was a monster, just like his Dad. He came to live with me, and it took several years before I could get him to even call his mother on her birthday. I haven’t had any contact with my daughter since the counselled session 7 years ago, and when I attempted some overtures to salvage a relationship with her, she sent me a rather nasty letter via regular mail and by certified mail (the handwriting on the envelopes was her mother’s) where she started out by addressing me by my name (uncapitalized) instead of “Dad” or “Father”, and she then informed me that she was terrified of me, and that she didn’t want anything to do with me FOREVER! She’s now 21, she’s hopelessly tied to her mother, and according to my oldest son, she’s more bat-shit-crazy than my ex.
Having so irretrievably lost my daughter, I’m sure you’ll understand my hyper vigilance in protecting my relationship with my son, but that tiresome vigilance has taken it’s toll on me. I’ve found it to be impossible to have a normal, stress free relationship with him while I have to remain constantly on red alert. I’m not allowed to speak badly about his mother, so I’m struggling to find a reasonable way to inform him of his mother’s destructive PD. She has never stopped with the threats to whisk him away across the country and that I’ll never see him again. I wonder how long I can watch my ex hold a symbolic gun to his head before I crack. My ex’s cruelty has no limits.
Gah! Swan Song, I am very sorry to read that your ex has passed the Crazy Torch down to your daughter, although, it is not surprising. Take a child with genetic predisposition for BPD, feed him or her a steady diet of hate, blame shifting and abuse and Presto! The cycle of Crazy continues. And it’s not just your daughter’s relationship with you that your ex has destroyed, but your daughter’s ability to have a healthy, loving reciprocal relationship with a man or a woman.
I am of the mind that you should absolutely set the record straight with the kids when mom is lying to them and painting you black. It is not trashing their mom by saying, “What your mother claims is false. Here’s the evidence that proves otherwise.” You must do this early and as often as necessary in age-appropriate language and then let the kids draw their own conclusions. You can tell the truth and still take the high road. You also tell the kids you love them and would never prevent them from having a relationship with their mother, no matter what your feelings are about her. Again, let them draw their own conclusions from that.
You don’t have to tell your kids she has a PD, but you can say, “What your mother told you is wrong” and “It is unfair and not right for your mother to make you choose between us. I love you and want you to love your mother, too.” You can and should say this to your kids. Let your kids know you and your ex don’t have to be an either/or proposition. You may also want to ask your son if he is afraid of his mother and what she will do if he maintains a relationship with you? Find out what his fears are and let him know it’s okay and natural to be afraid in these circumstances. Then you let him know your home will always be a safe place for him.
I can understand being worn out from dealing with the Crazy and the venom. Many of these types never tire of the hatred and vitriol. They just keep spewing and spewing and spewing like demented Energizer Bunny Rabbits. Make sure you take care of yourself. If you don’t, you won’t be able to help your son.
Thank you for your excellent advice and support, Dr. T. Finding this site has been a blessing.
Hey fellow bird!
Feel free to come into the forum and post for support from our team of wonderful people who are experienced in similar issues.
I feel so sorry about your daughter. My SO is going through similar, and all I can do is pray that she will get through it, while knowing that she is unlikely to escape crazy.
When I’m finished muddling my way through this legal motion to enforce our parenting plan and sending out the copies (I’m not a lawyer and can’t afford one, so I’m up to my ass in alligators in this legal maze) I will definitely try to join the forum. Thanks for the invite!
Be glad to welcome you anytime! Good luck with the paperwork…
My Mother-In-Law, Wife and Step-daughter all have BPD.. My wife just left me (I’m her 5 husband). My Mother in law who is 77 tears through all the retirees at the independent living center and my step daughter has a new man just about every month.
Swan Song, I had a very similar experience and just like you, seeing a child PAS’d in this manner was heart-wrenching. I completely understand what you’re going through. I often ask God why this happens.
Our ex’s are Hitlers and will stop at nothing in their campaign to emotionally harm us. Keep your chin up and try to love your daughter, albeit from afar, and I hope she sees the light someday.
Thanks Tara, these articles are great. I was in an on and off again relationship with a woman for a couple of years and was starting to feel like I was the crazy one and didn’t realize what was really going on until I found this site. She constantly criticized and called me names, told me I was sick and needed help, said I was afraid of commitment, was a selfish child, etc, and then would want a ring and get married, then go crazy again. When I said something that offended her, or wouldn’t do what she wanted, she would ruin holidays, vacations, and birthdays, or break up with me and go sleep with other guys. Everything was my fault, she would take no responsibility for anything.
She would always come back in a week or two and I would take her back, thinking it would be different. Of course, I couldn’t get over her being with other guys, so it was really difficult because I loved her and was close to her sons. She gave me an ultimatum a month or so ago, I refused to be controlled by her, so she broke up with me once again. I haven’t talked to her in a few weeks, so I assume she is with someone else. That’s her pattern, then when he won’t commit to her, is when she comes calling. I have decided to go no contact, got a couple calls and didn’t respond. It’s really tough, but I am starting to see how much crap I took from her and feel pretty dumb. My friends and family have seen it for a long time. Hopefully I can stay strong and stay away from her for good. It helps to read your articles, anytime I am feeling weak, I just start to go over them. Thanks so much.
Hi mountainman and welcome to S4M. Thank you for registering.
I am glad to read you are not responding to her calls. Stay strong and brace yourself for her to turn up on your doorstep or stage an “accidental” run-in.
If you haven’t yet, document all of the messed up, hurtful things she has done to you and look at it whenever you start to miss her and/or consider trying again. Also consider appointing a trusted friend as a “sponsor” (i.e., letting her back in your life).
The more time and distance you have away from her, the better and stronger you’ll feel, so try not to look back.
Mountainman, your situation sounds exactly like mine. I have said over and over that I would not take her back but she sucks me in. After yesterday when she decided to rub salt into me about a guy she dated for a few weeks after we broke up it made me angry and told her not to contact me again. We will see how long this lasts until she contacts me again. I cannot reply to her texts or calls when she starts again.
Great article! It ties a lot of related topics together.
Where did the 6-8 weeks to come out of the FOG and 30-60 days for them to start moving on come from? Are they based on studies or are they empirical?
After we broke up, my exgf was involved with someone within the 30-60 day period. My FOG period, which occurred immediately after Hoover1, lasted 3-4 weeks and I came out angry. I went NC and she came out of the woodwork at ~16 weeks after her subsequent relationship collapsed. When she realized she’d been replaced and a lame last ditch hoover failed, she went away for good.
The 30-60 day number is based on them and relates to threat. The 6-8 week number is based on us and relates to vulnerability. Any ideas of the shapes of curves? Are they constant over the time, decay linearly, or more exponetionally (i.e, we’re more vulnerable early on)? The example you cite of the guy who’s in month 6 of being hoovered would show a constant, if not increasing, threat curve.
If the numbers are reasonably close, a potentential strategy for breaking or, at least, weakening the attachment could be based on short and intermediate range goals focused on buying time. Once a “safe distance” is achieved, you can focus on other things. First things first.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks, Mell. Those numbers come from my clinical experience, not peer reviewed studies, so they’re anecdotal. As I mentioned, for some people, it takes longer. It seems to depend upon the length of the relationship and the severity of the trauma and how healthy/dysfunctional their FOO (family of origin).
Other variables are involved, too. Like minimizing/blocking contact of negative advocates/accomplices of the ex, participating in physical exercise, not letting oneself ruminate on the ex, making use of good social supports, re-engaging with life, etc.
It also depends on the variety of Crazy one is dealing with. There are clingers, cut-off queens, and boomerangs (they fly away for awhile and then come winging back — like your ex).
Well, I thought she’d gone away for good. I got a FB friend request for her 6 weeks short of 25 years since our last contact.
As much as I would have loved to know what in heaven’s name she wanted, this time I didn’t take the bait.
Great article and very timely for me personally…….. But what if the next narcissistic supply for the ex happens to be your own family who have some bpd issues also, and they turn on you? It seems even harder to go no contact with ones own birth family for ones own protection, but the hoovers from them are even more crazy difficult. The professions of ‘ love and support’ seem even more cruel, while out of the other side of the mouth they deny my feelings and needs for no contact with the ex.
Any comments.
Hi EG,
I’m saddened to read that your family is being so disrespectful to you. That stinks. You may want to consider creating some boundaries with your FOO and minimizing contact if they have willingly become negative advocates/accomplices of your ex. It will be hard and they will probably vilify you as the bad daughter/sister, but they’re no doubt going to do that anyway, so you may as well protect yourself and get to a place of peace free from the flying monkeys.
EG, urgh…yes, I can see how difficult the FOO being the next source of supply could be. My SO has gone LC over time with his family, and it does work, but requires hard work on your part to form support networks that take place of family. Fortunately my own Mum is used to adopting the waifs and strays her children bring along to the family so he is “extra son number 4″ in her list of children.
Wow, very timely article. 4 months after getting kicked out of my home with false DV charges and allegations to CPS I am finally getting my name cleared… but I continue to wonder what I could have done or did wrong with the BPD. This really helps put it in perspective.
I don’t know if you have to do anything except be involved with a sociopathic BPD/NPD/HPD/high-conflict abuser. Seems to be a common tactic in most high-conflict divorces. Most sociopaths know how to work the system with masterful skill and are quite adept at portraying themselves as the innocent victims when they are, in fact, the predators/criminals.
I’m glad to read you’ve been able to clear your name, but be careful. She may escalate and accuse you of something even worse. It usually goes false allegation of DV, then, when that doesn’t work, sexual abuse of the children. They’re disgusting. I wish the courts would start prosecuting and jailing them for their criminal BS. Having a Golden Uterus shouldn’t be a get out of jail and consequences card. Nor should a PD.
Well my first reaction to that is “nahhhhh, she would never do that.” But now I look back at what she has done and realize that would have been my reaction prior to this as well. I will be on the lookout. Any effective strategies to combat this; things I can do proactively in case in comes up? My kids are in therapy during my visitation so I think that may help.
1. ABR: Always Be Recording
2. DDD: Document, document, document
3. Whenever possible, always bring a witness to custody exchanges and/or do them somewhere with a security camera like the parking lot of your local police department.
4. Consider prosecuting her for her false allegations. If the DA won’t do it; consider a civil suit. Women like your ex are going to keep doing this until more men start seeking real consequences.
I will add to that: be able to account for where you are and what you are doing, at all times. Keep a diary of everywhere you go, when you got there, when you left, what you did there, and who you interacted with. Record the time when you got to bed at night and when you get up in the morning. Do things that create a paper trail. Purchasing things with credit cards is one good way to do this. Or, if you don’t want to do that, hit up a nearby ATM for $20 or however much you need anytime you go somewhere. If the place where you work has a card entry system, make sure you use it and don’t “piggyback” off of a co-worker. You never know when a record created by one of these systems might save your bacon. And do not ever go anyplace where you might be alone with children who are not yours.
The point at which the Duke Lacrosse false-accusation case started falling apart was when one of the players accused of participating in the rape was able to prove, by subpoenaing transaction records, that he was at an ATM some distance away at the time that the rape supposedly occurred. Keep that in mind.
Good advice. Makes me sad though. I’m OCD-ing on the Hitler analogy lately…and this stuff reminds me of Nazi Germany/Totalitarian/Stalinist societies, where you had to always have your papers and documents in order, and if you didn’t, you were screwed. F—–g sad society we live in.
As a couple others have mentioned, this is a timely post. I’m so glad to have this resource so I, at the very least, know what to expect.
I’m currently having an easy time staying no contact, because I do not want any contact. In fact, I’m somewhat afraid of my phone. It’s like the Hellraiser puzzle box – I’d prefer to leave it be. We’ll see what happens as time passes, but I am resolved to stay no contact.
The day after I left, I’d checked my phone and discovered several voicemails and text messages. I didn’t listen to the voice mails, but did read the texts. Talk about a bad decision – I felt terrible. That was when I really understood what no contact is about.
Kudos to you, Mr E! I know how long you’ve been agonizing over this decision.
It’s wise not to look at the messages. Even if you don’t respond, they still have the potential to mess with your head. Have you considered having a friend/family member screen them for you?
Thank you.
I joked with my parents that I picked the perfect time to be upset and lonely: anyone local I might trust to screen my messages for me is currently out of state. Oh well. I’ve got my phone turned off, and I’m going to leave it off for a while.
Very smart. Alternately, you might want to consider getting a new telephone number altogether.
This could not have been a timelier article for me. My friend of 20+ yrs has been married to a woman with BPD for the past 3 yrs. She is an extreme BPD (if there is such a thing). She has almost every trait of a BPD plus she is VERY physically violent. Although she has tried to block him from having any contact with me, over these past 3 years, he has managed to call me with frantic pleas to pick him up. She hits, punches, head butts, rips clothing, scratches, bites and breaks various items throughout the house. Usually this occurs when drinking (yes, she is an alcoholic as well). When sober, she is verbally abusive. He has been arrested for domestic violence (police believed her, not him). Her behavior continues to get worse as the years pass. I have now picked him up a total of 4 times, 3 of those times this year alone. He usually stays with me for 2 weeks, she will either “hoover” him back or he ends up missing her and contacting her, always thinking if he changes something, or buys something, that he can make it work and he just needs to stay and be true to his vows. This last time he stayed with me, I printed out pages upon pages of BPD info, which helped him tremendously and at first, and I really thought he might break the cycle. However, that did not happen. He went back yet again with those pages in hand. He said that he now had a better understanding of her disorder and that he will place boundaries, assert himself more, and that should help contain the problems. However, this last time I told him that I could no longer make myself available to pick him up in the middle of the night when she has yet another crazy, violent episode, which I am almost certain, will happen at some point again. I am starting to feel as if I am not really helping the situation at all, and I end up getting so frustrated and angry with a situation I really have no control over. He said that he understood, however, I still feel guilty. I feel as if I am turning my back on him. Did I do the right thing? Should I turn my back on someone who is being physically abused or at some point, isn’t it his choice to be in that situation?
Hi Mimi,
First, thank you for registering with S4M and welcome. Second, you are a very good friend. What a heartbreaking and powerless position to be in.
At this point, I would say giving your friend a safe haven is turning into enabling. It also seems to be causing you a great amount of stress. Unfortunately, some people don’t seem to be able to break free of this craziness. Hopefully, the BPD he’s married to will not end up killing him or landing him in jail where he will encounter a whole new set of abuses. He really is risking his life and his freedom. Are children involved in this mess? I hope not.
Sometimes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him think or something like that. You seem to have provided him with enough resources, but he is choosing to stay in an abusive relationship. I think showing your friend some tough love is for the best. You may want to give him the number for Jan Brown’s DV hotline that services both men an women.
Domestic Abuse Helpline for Men and Women 1-888-743-5754
Thank you for your quick feedback. She has 4 children from 2 previous marriages. Both ex-husbands have custody. She only has visitation. However, she has both graphically insulted and punched my friend in front of the children. Luckily, she physically can have no other children, so he was not sucked into that nightmare as well. I would attempt to give him the helpline number, however, I cannot contact him now since his spouse locks his phone with an undisclosed password. He also has no email or social network contact (per her request/demand). However, I will keep it on hand if he can ever escape her manipulative web. You are correct, it does cause me great stress, because I see him walking back into a lion’s den. From what I understand, it is hard for these people to change, so the best I can hope for is that he can find a safe way to live in this madness. I will heed your advice and follow the tough love route. I really appreciate your website and sharing your knowledge. It has helped me tremendously.
You’re welcome, Mimi, and I’m very sorry to read about your friend. Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom before they can climb out.
He’s fortunate to have a friend like you. When or if you do talk to him again, you might want to let him know that when he is serious about getting out and getting on the road to recovery, you’ll be there to support him. Meanwhile, take good care of yourself!