Brass Balls Award: Husband Sets Boundaries with Slacker Wife and Tells Her to Grow Up and Get a Job
Last week, the Shrink4Men Forum welcomed a group of new members, which happens every week. This article focuses on the recent stellar boundary setting of one of the Forum’s newest members.
Let’s call this gentleman “Earl.” Earl joined the Forum primarily because his wife has been spending their family into debt. Additionally, she has been chronically underemployed or unemployed by her own choice for the majority of their 15-year marriage.
Naturally, Earl’s wife had a career when they first met, which is one of the qualities that attracted him to her. She was a single, working mom with a child from a previous relationship and he admired her gumption and work ethic. After they tied the knot, her career began to crater.
My suspicion is that she made herself out to be more successful than she was during their courtship and the truth about her career came out after the marriage. Alternately, perhaps with her new financial safety net (i.e., husband), she let her career tank because she never really wanted to work in the first place.
According to Earl, his wife spends money as fast as he makes it, which puts enormous stress on him. Her expectation is that Earl should find new ways to make money to keep up with her spending habits and lack of gainful employment. Sound familiar?
For the last few years, Earl has pleaded with her to go back to work. He has told her they only need an additional $20,000/year to cover their bills, cover her spending and save for retirement. His pleas have been met with the usual excuses: “I can’t find anything I’m qualified for that I like. No employer will pay me what I’m worth. I’ll be miserable at the jobs available to me. I want to pursue my dream of starting my own highly niche craft business.”
To punish Earl for having the reasonable expectation that she contribute to the family finances, she has been acting out passive aggressively. For example, she tries to ruin scheduled family events by making them late because “she has to stay home and work.” The implication being if Earl wasn’t “forcing” her to work (i.e., be a grown-up), everything would be peachy keen. Most recently, Earl’s wife made them 2.5 hours late for an elderly dying family member’s birthday party.
Up until joining the Shrink4Men Forum, Earl has been going along with this, waiting on her and feeling more and more trapped. My advice to Earl regarding his wife’s passive-aggressive lateness is as follows:
Leave without her and let her get mad. If she wants to be passive-aggressive, let her do it all by her lonesome.
I suspect it should only take 2 or 3 times for her to figure out her games are no longer going to cut any ice with you. She’ll probably get mad and portray you as the jerk, but at least you’ll be a punctual “jerk.”
This isn’t the only advice Earl received on the Shrink4Men Forum.
Earl states that he would prefer not to get divorced, however, he is tired of enabling his wife’s irresponsible spending, entitlement and expectation that he pay her way through life. He is tired of sacrificing his happiness and well-being to her sense of entitlement. He thought he was marrying an equal partner, not a dependent.
A long-time forum member, Jham, suggested that Earl follow his example. Over a year ago, Jham finally had enough of his wife’s similar behavior and cut her off from the joint finances and credit cards. He essentially gave her an allowance to cover groceries, the monthly bills and that’s it. Jham told his wife if she wanted more money to pay for all of her incidentals and frivolities, she would need to get a job.
Recently, Jham discovered his wife was padding their monthly bills in order to skim money off the top, so he took those over as well, leaving her with less pocket money per month. By the way, who embezzles money from their own family? Wow!
Jham quit paying for his wife’s car insurance, upkeep, parking violations and cell phone bill. He figured she’s been angry and full of contempt for him and unappreciative of everything he’s done to support their family for the last 20 years, so what’s the worst that could happen? She’ll be more contemptuous, ungrateful and angry? She’ll file for divorce?
Let me be very clear. What Jham is practicing is not financial abuse. What Jham’s wife and Earl’s wife are doing to their husbands is financial abuse. They are spending their husbands and families into debt without contributing anything to the financial welfare and security of their families. They are also unfairly placing the entire financial burden on their husbands.
These women are essentially overgrown children who have been running amok with “daddy’s” credit card. Earl and Jham do not want to control their wives via the family finances; they want their wives to contribute to the family finances. This is a reasonable expectation; it is their wives who are being unreasonable.
Over a year later, Jham’s wife finally figured out the money tree was not going to magically sprout new bills ever again and guess who just started a paying job 2 weeks ago? Sure, she’s resentful as hell about it, but welcome to the world of grown-up realities.
Earl took Jham’s advice and ran with it in record time. Earl has given me his permission to share what transpired just over this past weekend. Here’s what happened:
I went home from work last Friday like I always do. Wife was going crazy because she was really behind on an order she’s been procrastinating about for 2 weeks. I talked to her several times during the last 2 weeks about getting started on the order instead of waiting until the last minute and that she should get her work done first and then play on Facebook. She would not listen and would only argue and fight that she knew what she was doing and I should get off her back.
I told her that I always want to enjoy my weekend, and if she is going to work all weekend, then I would enjoy it by myself.
Since she was busy, I did not pause or wait for her (took away her control) and I went and had a great time by myself. Got home by 10pm (I am up early) and went to bed while she was still working.
Should have known Crazy could not let that go.
At 3am, when our daughter got home, she went into my wife’s office and started talking loudly about what a fun night she had. Since they were standing 5-6 feet from my head with the door open, they woke me right away. I try really hard to never say anything in anger, so I let it go until the morning and got up about 15 minutes after my wife finally came to bed.
I started my day. Went to work out, worked on a few small items at work, set up our church for service the next day, had breakfast with a friend and came home and paid all of our bills by 9:30am. Feeling good about how much I had already accomplished for the day, I woke my wife and daughter up (they were not happy to be woken up “so early”) and established clear boundaries. I said:
‘For 15 years I have worked exceptionally hard to put your happiness and well-being before my own. Today that changes. I am not putting myself before you, but I am now putting myself equal to you. For 15 years I have financed and supported you while you have chased one dream after another without ever truly financially supporting yourself, your daughter, or this family. This ends now. You are welcome to chase your dreams, but like everyone else on the planet, if your dreams will not support you, then you better get a job.‘
‘We have mixed our finances together since the day we got married. Today that ends. From here on out, we are separating our finances. You will use the money you make to cover our food budget, gas for your car, your medical co-pays and any personal expenses you may have in a given month. In September, you will take over the cable bill. In December, you will take over the energy bill, and in March, you will take over the cell phone bill. This is exactly 1/4 of the bills that we pay every month. You will need to either make your business work very fast, or get a job.’
‘If you have to work on weekends, that is fine, but that is my time to relax and enjoy life. I will be doing so. Preferably with you, but if not, I will do it without you. Life is too short for me to watch it pass by while you work in your office at night because you spent all day on Facebook.’
After that she cried a bit about not knowing how she was going to get a job because she ‘tried that already’ or ‘no one will hire me for what you want me to make.’ I calmly explained to her that all I’m asking her to do is get a $12/hour job. She has already had 4 jobs like that over the last 4 years that she has quit. I am no longer going to be the one that is punished because she does not go to work. It was her decision to quit those 4 jobs.
I pointed out that most adults who do not work, do not eat. This seemed to upset her. I let her anger be the sign that she was tipping out of control and used that as a weakness. I then related a Bible parable about a man stealing from his employer instead of working, which resulted in him being kicked out of his employer’s home. I told her I do not want it to come to that, but if she continues to not produce, she can be kicked out, too.
This really shocked her. She was incredibly docile all weekend.
I am going to keep this up until she gets and keeps a job, or until she leaves. I hope she does not leave, but I am no longer paying for her to stay with my happiness.
Bring the crazy. I am prepared.
INSERT STANDING OVATION HERE.
Bravo to both Jham for leading the way and Earl for having the courage to take a stand for his happiness and well-being.
However, I suspect Earl will experience some blow back in the form of more passive-aggression, bargaining, manipulating, rationalizing, threats, resentment, hostile dependence, accusations of being cruel and abusive and perhaps even threats to divorce. He seems to have made his peace with the possible repercussions.
Fellas, boundaries are good. Natural consequences for bad and/or irresponsible behaviors are good. Your wife will be angry and resentful, but aren’t you already getting a regular serving of that because of her hostile dependence?
You have a right to be happy. You have a right to enjoy the fruits of your labor and to be able to save for your retirement. You have a right to a partner who pulls her own weight in the relationship, emotionally and financially.
When your wife spends $300 on a purse she doesn’t need without batting an eye it’s probably because she doesn’t get (or doesn’t care) how many hours you have to work at a job you probably don’t like for her to be able to buy that bag that ends up in the back of her closet never to be used. If she had to work 20 hours for a jerky boss and crabby customers to earn $300, she probably wouldn’t spend money so freely. This is why many parents make their kids get paper routes and after-school/summer jobs; to learn the value of a buck.
Your wife may never let go of her entitlement and unreasonable financial expectations, but that doesn’t mean you have to continue to let her financially abuse you.
Don’t try this at home unless . . .
To many of you reading this, what Jham and Earl are doing probably seems like a nuclear option. It might be, depending upon your individual circumstances. The simple fact of the matter is your wife or girlfriend is unlikely to ever change (if that is even possible) unless she experiences negative consequences for her current behaviors and attitudes.
Many women will just divorce you if you quit subsidizing their spending without working because they know they will, at the very least, get half of your assets in a divorce. Therefore, do not attempt this unless:
1. You have made your peace with the possibility of divorce.
2. You have figured out the cost-effectiveness of divorce and potential spousal support and child support costs vs. continuing to subsidize her permanent summer vaca stay-at-home lifestyle.
3. You have clearly figured out a working budget, reasonable expectations for her contribution to it, an equitable division of household bills, and reasonable deadlines for her to obtain a job, etc.
4. You are prepared to deal with any resulting temper tantrums, silent treatment, withdrawal of affection, elective martyrdom, self-sabotage and self-defeating attitudes, bargaining, pouting, etc.
5. You are prepared to stick with your boundary 100%. Any softening in expectations, backpedaling, caving and weakening of boundaries and consequences will undermine your credibility. Your wife will not take you seriously ever again and it’s all downhill from there.
Do not do this if . . .
1. Your wife is physically violent.
2. Your wife has threatened to make false allegations against you to the police.
Although, if your wife is violent and/or threatening to get you arrested, what the heck are you still doing with her? Her gainful employment or lack thereof is the least of your worries.
This advice may not be suitable for you. The point is the importance of boundaries in achieving peace of mind and happiness. Your wife or girlfriend may or may not respect your boundaries once you decide to implement them. If this is the case, you will need to provide a natural consequence, whatever that may be.
Shrink4Men Coaching and Consulting Services:
Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.
90 Responses to “Brass Balls Award: Husband Sets Boundaries with Slacker Wife and Tells Her to Grow Up and Get a Job”
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I have experienced this fnancial abuse deal. Without going into a lot of detail, like the rest of the abuse, I let it take place and that is on me.
ron, be careful not to lay blame on yourself. Although you are being Noble by taking it on the chin, the abused is not to blame for being abused. I’ll accept that you were “too nice”, but stating that you are the one to blame while the abuser escapes culpability is you victimizing yourself all over again.
Please, this is not an attack, I feel empathy for you when I see you post words that blame you…..stop allowing the abuse today…..place the blame squarely where it belongs.
Thank you jham123. But, I do realize that all the responsibility for the abusiveness lays with my XW. However, mygreatestregret is how long I tolerated this.It got to the point where my life was almost unfixable, even after the divorce. My finanaces, once very good, were obliterated. My self esteem was in the tank due to all the verbal and emotional abuse.
What I realize is that I took this way too long. I allowed it to happen, and while there were some mitigating circumstances which might explain why it took me so long to ake up(kids, isolation from support, incredulity that my XW could possibly be so evil and irresponsible, frog in the gradually warmed pot etc.) , I do takek responsibility gor putting up with this.
Many of us seem to not realize that we are not powerless against these women.I knew, on some level, that the person I was dealing with was, essentially, a monster. I kneew it early on, too. Yet, I denied it to myself because I was unwilling to face the consequences of having made a piss poor choice of a mate.
Yet, the consequences to me and m kids would have been less severe, If I’d had the courage to bail earlier.
I have an extremely cruel, NPd sister who now stalks me on this site(Hi, sis! Badmouthed any other family members besides me and our older sister to folks, lately). I handle her by just ignoring her sick , twisted attacks and just keeping her out of my life. I should have jsttisoned my serially chaeating XW withi the first year of marriage(approximately 20 silent treatments into the marriage).
I stumbled on this site yesterday and have been increasingly sick at heart reading so, SO many stories that run parallel to my boyfriend’s brother and his wife. My boyfriend and I are happy (please note, guys–there ARE healthy, mature women out there!
So there can be life after emotional vampirism), but bro and sis-in-law are so enmeshed in the spiderweb of her PD that it’s painful to watch. The look in his eyes is excruciating to see–especially in this person I’ve known since he was four–either he’s wary, waiting for it, bewildered because it came from an angle he hadn’t thought of, or trapped because he’s in the thick of it…and (worst, I think) the shame in his eyes when he loses his temper or stoops to her level.
I love my boyfriend, his brother, and their kids. But I’ve started avoiding going to their house (which is the hub of the family and our group of friends). I don’t trust this woman AT ALL, and know she’ll eventually turn on me. I won’t let my daughter babysit for their kids, even though it would be so convenient and fun for all the kids. I can’t risk exposing my daughter to her machinations, though.
Brother recently told her to get a job if she wants to be treated like a fully functioning adult, and she lost her mind. It’s obvious she’s bored (kids are in school), and spends the day dreaming up ways to torment him the second he walks in the door. That’s the HIGHLIGHT of her existence–total control of the dynamic. Whether it’s a group that she’s holding in thrall with that “will she blow or won’t she” razor’s edge, eggshells nonsense during an evening, or an accusation of cruelty/abuse (which is how she framed the job conversation to anyone who would listen), she absolutely delights in power, however it’s gained. She refuses to work and (shock) has told him that she’d make it her “career” to bankrupt him in a divorce and strip him of the children if he “forced” her to work. Peter Pan, meet Cruella DeVille.
She resents me (but is leery of showing how much) because I have a decent career, one that sounds more interesting than it is, but with these women the IMAGE is paramount so it really bugs her. I’ve gone out of my way to be respectful of the SAHM halo she puts on, because I don’t want to cause a rift, but it’s a time bomb. I can’t keep avoiding them, as my boyfriend is starting to worry it means I’m thinking his family is a dealbreaker. I love him and support him and accept him, and that means accepting and getting along with his family. I know that. But I’m starting to wonder if I’m a coward for being afraid of her wrath because I work for a living.
Another part of it is, I hate the thought of being used as a weapon against him. “Oh, you think I should be more like HER, that’s it, isn’t it??” I can’t bear the thought of my boyfriend’s brother resenting me because I “caused” a fight. I adore both of these men (again, I’ve known them since we were tiny kids), and admire them, and SUPPORT them–but it comes at such a price…and I find myself wondering, “Why in the hell do we let the sickest person in the room control the room????”
My ex GF used to worry about me comparing her to my brother’s wife too. (I never meant to. I was just telling my GF about her.) My GF once said something to the effect of, “As long as your brother is married to her, people will always be comparing me to her.” Wow. How insecure can someone get? It’s not like I can ask my brother to divorce his wife because she’s making my GF uncomfortable.
Ohhh tallwheel, that made me gulp…I can just about *hear* this woman gearing up to say something like this.
And yikes, “As long as your brother is married to her”…that means she felt the *potential* of them divorcing was a *solution* to HER problem! Who thinks like that? Who frames the world like that?
Can-am, first of all kudos to you for heeding your instincts and recognizing an evil person – evil woman in this case – who is tormenting your bf’s brother. Honestly, as a guy its validating and relieving to hear other women recognize evil women and call them out like this.
And no, you’re not being cowardly for avoidance behavior. I think that’s normal and there is not a lot you can do. Maybe some preemptive counseling on how to deal with a BPD person? That way when the ‘time bomb’ goes off in your face, you can shield yourself & family as much as possible.
Keep coming back to this site!
Thanks, cuatezon–much appreciated feedback! This site has been an education. My boyfriend read some of the articles and has been talking to his brother about the issues, so hopefully that will prompt a good dialogue.
Your idea of preemptive counseling is a good one. Knowledge=power, after all. Already learning via this site how utterly (and absurdly?) predictable her behavior and statements are. My boyfriend said to his brother, “Watch, she’ll start talking about wanting another baby now that you said to get a job” …and sure enough!
In a way it’s comforting that there are names and explanations for this behavior, but on the other it’s dismal that it’s so commonplace and predictably toxic.
Thanks again!
You’re welcome cam-am. Yes its been helpful for me too to be able to verbalize and label the insane people and their behavior. Agree too its disheartening this stuff is so commonplace. There are some other good web links on this site’s homepage – one I also benefitted from was ‘angies list’ or something like that, there are lots of excellent descriptions of BPDs/crazies and real-life anecdotes that you may also find helpful – or at least relieved in some strange way that your bf’s brothers situation is not an isolated case.
Sounds like your bf’s brother is experiencing some of the outrageous and absurd behavior that I too lived through – and still have to put up with, although thankfully from a distance since I got out a few years back. Let us know how the counseling goes and if you get any good tips or strategies!
These “stay at home mom’s” with NO kids or teens will argue back that “they ARE contributing to the household, their shopping, cooking, cleaning and other tasks are just as valuable as his financial contribution.” And that even though they contribute nothing financially, they should have a 50% say in any financial and other decisions about said household…
I say BS. I was the breadwinner for 5 years in my new marriage. I supported my husband to get a business started, I got a mortgage in my name only because his credit was hosed (he has a psycho x who ruined their credit on her way out the door) I paid off our bills, financed and paid for two cars, etc. I am now “staying at home” because we have two children under 5 and its not cost effective for me to work out side the home and pay daycare for an infant and a preschool aged child. However, because of my former career I have been blessed to pick up some side work at home. I also contribute greatly to the running of his company. And as he is now the breadwinner, he gets more say in our financial decisions at present. I don’t and have never considered my doing dishes and cooking to be equal to the spouse who provides a roof over our head, insurance, and a decent standard of living. I am blessed to be able to be at home, I would never belittle my husbands contribution to our household or not go back to work when our family requires it. Selfish. Selfish…
You go guys!
minicoopsmom, I agree. It is incredibly selfish, and self-absorbed, and self-serving, and self-involved…and and and.
It makes me wonder if they’re getting their sense of self from external labels, cues and dynamics, rather than having a secure internal sense of who they are. Maybe that’s why it’s impossible for them to act as a genuine, PEER partner in a relationship.
Which is exactly what you describe your relationship as in the above post: a genuine partnership…the way it should be!
“It makes me wonder if they’re getting their sense of self from external labels, cues and dynamics, rather than having a secure internal sense of who they are.”
I think that’s pretty much the definition of borderline personality disorder. They don’t have that internal sense, so they desire a constant stream of external affirmation.
You’re right, Cousin Dave! Hadn’t put those two together ’til you said it. I suppose ultimately it’s all about their identity or lack thereof. Then compound that with their assumption that everyone sees the world the way they do…I guess I’d feel threatened by life, too. Like everything is one big food chain. (I always want to call it a “competition,” but it’s more primitive or visceral than that.)
What an empty and wasteful way to live.
The SAHM job being as demanding and stressful as the workplace is a huge myth, perpetuated by folks very invested in staying home, with much more leisure ime and less stress. I have done my share of child rearing and it is a snap compared to what I fave at work each day.
Seems once a spouse gets a foothold in staying home, he or she ,often, remains there, even after the kids go to school full time.
Just imagine the leisure they have. Household duties can be done while watching TV and accomplished in very little time. Then, it it pla time.Older kids come home and demand very little. It is a huge racket.
You got a y chromsome: you get to work your ass off/ You have two XS and a husband naive enough to buy the BS that a SAHM has a hard job and it’s off to leisureland.
My grandma used to call staying at home with little ones “being pecked to death by ducks.” I do think sometimes it seems frustrating (not the same as stressful) and endless (not the same as demanding) staying home with preschoolers because there’s a lot of drudgery/sameness to the day, and you’re trying to get chores done while they’re pecking you to death.
But yep, once the kids are in school, come on! I sometimes point out to those “hardest job in the world” SAHMs of school-aged kids, “hey, I’m a single mom with two jobs, and I’m running the house and raising the kid all by myself. So I do all those hours of chores/errands/duties you do, plus full-time and part time jobs…how can I get it all done AROUND my two jobs, if it’s so time-consuming?”
I usually get the blank “I was told there’d be no math” look. Heh heh.
Totally disagree with the idea that the SAHM job is as demanding as working a corporate (or other demanding) job outside the home. While it is challenging when you are dealing with the under 5 set day in and day out, its NOTHING like being a wage slave in corporate America. I have done both. I spent 11 years working for two fast paced fortune 500 companies and am now “work at home mom.” I have a freelance gig I do 2 days a week when my son is in preschool. Its not a cake walk to deal with young children 24/7 while my husband builds his business and works 60+ hours a week. But I am blessed to be able to be home with my children and to spend that quality time with them. Any one who has kids over 5 and in kindergarten (and is not home schooling) has no reason to complain. They get a daily break during school hours. And SAHM of teens? Puhleez.
“Seems once a spouse gets a foothold in staying home, he or she ,often, remains there, even after the kids go to school full time.”
This was me. The SAHM mom stuff is total Bravo Sierra (BS) and I still harbor some anger over the attitude.
Sometimes I think that these women get confused. They are told that they can accomplish anything they want to do in a career – go to college and follow their dream. And having a career makes them more attractive to their potential mates. But then they are also told they should stay at home “just while the kids are young.” Because it is best for the children. Usually by the old-school mother in law who also never had to do much work compared to the rat race we live in these days.
They forget/ignore about what they will have to give up for a career (something men have known and lived with for a long time). The second they get the chance they stay home and live a permanent vacation with the kids. That is to say as long as they have a sucker to take care of them. Let’s face it the SAHM is a big party. This is total bait and switch in my mind. And the way the courts/society is today if you are the man you are stuck with paying for them either way if your spouse lies to you about her intentions – or fails to live up to her word.
Hello-
Just wanted to give a shout-out to Jham and Earl. Ouch, Sorry you had to do that. I have to admit, as a woman running a “niche creative business” while my husband is trapped in a job he hates, I also kinda winced a bit and worried I was too much like Jham’s wife!
I understand the all too well the temptation to let hubby carry the bills while I do my fun thing. Especially because I get a lot of support from other women to do just that! I remember being at book club once when somehow the discussion came up of splitting housework. I explained that because my hubby worked full time at a high-paying unpleasant job, while I worked free-lance at something I loved, I felt it was only fair to pick up all child-care, cleaning, cooking, laundry, bill-paying, taxes, yard-work, and pretty much every other routine household tasks except repairs. Especially because hubby has a chronic health problem that leaves him exhausted by the end of the working day. My idea was, greet him with a smile every night, a hug of appreciation, and preferably a nice snack before dinner.
The other ladies looked at me with pitying contempt, like I was some 1950s throw-back who hadn’t shed her girdle yet. I tried to explain that THIS was my idea of equality- looking at what had to be done and splitting it fairly according to time and abilities.
I could do a much better job saving than I do now (though I set up and help fund all our investment accounts), and I sometime overspend. But I hate myself for it, esp. when I see how much it stresses hubby! My solution- I doubled-down on my business and signed $9k in contracts just this month.
I don’t know why or how this idea that bright, college educated women deserve to be supported for life by men without doing child care or housework became so popular. My mom tells me it wasn’t the case for my grandma’s generation. She says, “We used to be a primarily rural population, and you better believe that farm wives worked. My mom’s garden and chickens and eggs and canning and butter and cheese making contributed as much as my dad’s farming. They were partners through and through.”
I’m a strong feminist, but my idea of feminism is to be a fully adult human being, with no outside limitations placed on you, but also no internal excuses. Be a partner, not a parasite.
Thanks for letting women read your side of the story, and helping us keep it real!
Hello Tallgirl,
Welcome to S4M. Thank you for being so supportive to the folks here! I appreciate it.
Dr T
Most welcome – it’s an interesting site, and I think you should get a “brass ovaries” award for putting it out there!
After I wrote the above, I tried to remember where I got the “parasite” idea. I remember reading early feminist texts in college and one that really struck me was Olive Schreiner’s warning that labor-saving devices in the home meant that middle-class women were at risk of falling into “female-parasitism” unless they stepped up and helped with the intellectual and manufacturing tasks of society (i.e. got a job).
The idea of these earliest feminist/marxists seemed to be to give EVERYONE a better life. Less soul-draining, repetitive, grueling work for men. An equitable split of wage earning. Instead of the man working 40-60 hours a week outside the home, the husband and wife each working 20-25. That way he could ALSO spend time at home, with the kids, and have some (GASP!) leisure time at all class levels to rest and restore himself.
Ah, whatever happened to that dream? What a happy society we’d be if we could pull that off!
Here’s a quote from Olive in 1911 – it’s long but you might find it interesting:
At the present day, so enormous has been the advance made in the substitution of mechanical force for crude, physical, human exertion (mechanical force being employed today even in the shaping of feeding- bottles and the creation of artificial foods as substitutes for mother’s milk!), that it is now possible not only for a small and wealthy section of women in each civilised community to be maintained without performing any of the ancient, crude, physical labours of their sex, and without depending on the slavery of, or any vast increase in the labour of, other classes of females; but this condition has already been reached, or is tending to be reached, by that large mass of women in civilised societies, who form the intermediate class between poor and rich.
During the next fifty years, so rapid will undoubtedly be the spread of the material conditions of civilisation, both in the societies at present civilised and in the societies at present unpermeated by our material civilisation, that the ancient forms of female, domestic, physical labour of even the women of the poorest classes will be little required, their place being taken, not by other females, but by always increasingly perfected labour-saving machinery.
Thus, female parasitism, which in the past threatened only a minute section of earth’s women, under existing conditions threatens vast masses, and may, under future conditions, threaten the entire body.
If woman is content to leave to the male all labour in the new and all- important fields which are rapidly opening before the human race; if, as the old forms of domestic labour slip from her for ever and evitably, she does not grasp the new, it is inevitable, that, ultimately, not merely a class, but the whole bodies of females in civilised societies, must sink into a state of more or less absolute dependence on their sexual functions alone….
It is wholly untrue that fifty pounds, or two thousand, earned by the male as the result of his physical or mental toil, if part of it be spent by him in supporting non-labouring females, whether as prostitutes, wives, or mistresses, is the same thing to the female or to the race as though that sum had been earned by her own exertion, either directly as wages or indirectly by toiling for the man whose wages supported her. For the moment, truly, the woman so tended lies softer and warmer than had she been compelled to exert herself; ultimately, intellectually, morally, and even physically, the difference in the effect upon her as an individual and on the race is the difference between advance and degradation, between life and death. The increased wealth of the male no more of necessity benefits and raises the female upon whom he expends it, than the increased wealth of his mistress necessarily benefits mentally or physically a poodle because she can give him a down cushion in place of one of feathers, and chicken in place of beef. The wealthier the males of a society become, the greater the temptation, both to themselves and to the females connected with them, to drift toward female parasitism…
…. (The fact cannot be too often dwelt upon that parasitism is not connected with any definite amount of wealth. Any sum supplied to an individual which will so far satisfy him or her as to enable them to live without exertion may absolutely parasitise them; while vast wealth (unhealthy as its effects generally tend to be) may, upon certain rare and noble natures, exert hardly any enervating or deleterious influence. An amusing illustration of the different points at which enervation is reached by different females came under our own observation. The wife of an American millionaire was visited by a woman, the daughter and also the widow of small professional men. She stated that she was in need of both food and clothing. The millionaire’s wife gave her a leg of mutton and two valuable dresses. The woman proceeded to whine, though in vigorous health, that she had no one to carry them home for her, and could not think of carrying them herself. The American, the descendant of generations of able, labouring, New England, Puritan women, tucked the leg of mutton under one arm and the bundle of clothes under the other and walked off down the city street towards the woman’s dwelling, followed by the astonished pauper parasite.
The most helpless case of female degeneration we ever came into contact with was that of a daughter of a poor English officer on half-pay and who had to exist on a few hundreds a year. This woman could neither cook her own food nor make her own clothes, nor was she engaged in any social, political, or intellectual or artistic labour. Though able to dance for a night or play tennis for an afternoon, she was yet hardly able to do her own hair or attire herself, and appeared absolutely to have lost all power of compelling herself to do anything which was at the moment fatiguing or displeasing, as all labour is apt to be, however great its ultimate reward. In a life of twenty-eight years this woman had probably not contributed one hour’s earnest toil, mental or physical, to the increase of the sum total of productive human labour.
I take my hat off to you Jham and Earl!
I do find in reading all of Dr T.’s articles and the comments, that at least I’m not alone and I find oh so many to relate to AND I’m not fraking C-R-A-Z-Y!!! And it’s not all my fault!!!
The problem I have with this is that, based on Earl’s comments, it is implied that she misrepresented herself as someone who had a high paying job, and then she quit that job after she got married, and then she began to spend beyond their means. Given that this is a real problem if this was not the understanding going into the marriage.
However, I sense a tone of condescension in the “niche craft business” comments. If this is what she was openly planning all along, and it was her understanding that this marriage was a situation where she would be supported and could follow her dreams, then I think it’s rather unfair to paint her as a petulant child who refuses to work. From her perspective, she is working, she’s just doing something Earl isn’t taking seriously. Admittedly it’s something that is not helping to support the family financially.
My girlfriend is a freelance professional artist, and we both take her work very seriously. Everything is out in the open in terms of finances. I’m prepared to support her if work gets thin at some point, even though at this point her work is growing dramatically and we assume that when she moves in with me, she will be able to put some money into some of our expenses.
I wonder what would have happened if Earl and his girlfriend had this conversation before he proposed.
Hello Stephenjm,
Thank you for registering with Shrink4Men and welcome.
To clarify:
1. Yes, Earl’s wife did misrepresent herself. When they met, she was working in a profession and the plan was for her to continue working. This changed after they married. They had separate finances before marriage and joined finances after while she was still working.
2. The choice of wording “niche craft business” is mine. In order to protect Earl’s and his wife’s privacy, I removed the actual business. It is very niche and one that does not have a high success rate.
3. She did not state this was her dream until very recently when Earl began to press her to get a job. In my opinion, her dream business is just another way to avoid actually having to work and contribute to the family’s finances. Earl would love for her business to be successful. He doesn’t really care what she does; he just needs for her to contribute to their finances and retirement. I do not think it is unreasonable of Earl to give her a deadline for making her business successful.
It is great that you and your gf are open about finances and her risky career choice. Earl’s wife was not. As stated earlier, Earl and his wife did have this conversation before they married. After they said, “I do,” she changed the rules. I recommend you have a conversation with your gf about how you will manage finances if her business does not continue to grow. Will you still be expected to support her? Or will she get a job to finance her dream job?
I have not logged on lately, but this story is mind numbing!
My wife is an Olympic Gold cry baby. Nothing, and i mean NOTHING is her fault.
Calls me verbally abusive for situations that are all well represented in these posts……Years of hostile dependency.
I once asked her what she didn’t like more. The way I say things, or what I was saying. Want to guess her answer?…..
One significantly repressed irrationally dependent child…..Cousin Dave’s story gives me the creeps. However, were you angry or just unsettled by her intrusion?
I read this and almost cried…………..
http://www.girlsjustwannahavefunds.com/financial-abuse-6-signs-and-what-you-can-do-about-it
I’m hoping that Earl sees an attorney, and soon. I’d suggest getting every financial record he can copied, and annually get a credit report. I’d also start making a habit of carrying around a digital recorder.
My ex, among other things, felt that spending 25% more than I made every month was not only her right, but her responsibility. Throw in some alcohol, a few violent blackouts and either a HPD or BPD, and you’ve got a recipe for ruin.
I finally insisted that my ex get a job. She played the golden uterus for a while, and refused to live on any kind of budget. “It’s for the baby”, “It was on sale”, “I was mad at you”. She refused to get up in the morning, would sleep till the crack of noon with the kids dirty and hungry, call me every 15-20 minutes all afternoon, berate me when I got home, keep me up until 2am, rinse and repeat.
Putting your foot down is very dangerous. The “Duluth” model says that being firm about the spending, insisting your partner be a partner and pull their weight, controlling any aspect of the budget or accounts, is abuse, and lawyers are pretty good about making men the villain, and enshrining the bad actor’s deeds as the status quo for life ever after.
For my concern, I was assaulted, then arrested, and then I spent a year out of my house. I still had to pay for it, which at the time was half my pay. I gave 95% of the rest to my spouse, in the form of child and spousal support. She was supposed to pay the bills and expenses with it, but never did, running up another $2400 in phone bills, $1100 in cable fees, nearly $2,000 in electric bills, and somehow, in Texas, a $500 gas bill. She also managed to open a utility account in my 2 year old daughter’s name, write hot checks on the closed joint marital account, and rent cars in my name. Years later, she still would claim she was on my health insurance, leaving me with hospitals and clinics sending accounts to collections.
In these matters, the police are not interested in pursuing fraud. Neither are the creditors or the vendors, but the only reason I can see is the futility of making a dead-beat pay.
My ex remarried and divorced. They separated after about 2 months, with her stabbing him and selling his car with the aid of their marriage license. The police refused to consider it theft, and told him to go to civil court, since they were married, and she could do as she pleased.
My ex repaid the year in the free house with more grief (she had all day with no responsibilities), and vandalized the house. Her lawyer sent me his bill, and tried to get a lien on my house.
I’ve been divorced a mere 8 years, and I’d never do that again. My ex lost custody after a year, and the court has handled her parental obligations with disinterest. She’s now over $18,000 behind on child support, and hasn’t paid a cent in 3 years, even after two court hearings have found her in contempt.
Our state’s attorney general doesn’t find it politically expedient, nor financially viable, to pursue my ex, so it’s one lame excuse after another. I have no doubt, like I know the sun will come up tomorrow, that the court would not tolerate me not paying a substantially higher amount of support for three months, let alone the piddling obligation she has.
I could tell you about the violence and the psychotic behavior. I could tell you about not being able to sleep, about having to sleep with a pillow over my groin to feel safe, about carrying a gps tracker, having voice recorders in my jacket and in my car, logging every mile I drive, and having cameras and a DVR on my house. I could tell you about waking up in the middle of the night soaked and shaking because I was dreaming I was living with my ex.
All in all, leaving my ex has cost over $120,000 in debt, fees, fines, lost savings, lost equity, damages, defaults. Courts think that men are made of money, just as much as these women do. They wouldn’t dream of inconveniencing her, but it’s quite alright with them if you live for 6 months on the $20 left after the court’s obligations. You’re a smart man, you’ll manage. You still have room on a credit card, somewhere, right? Good thing I have friends with big couches.
They do what they do, because they can, and because someone either thinks we deserve the abuse, or thinks that holding an adult woman to the same level of accountability as a man would somehow be unfair. Again and again, even with outright felonies, someone minimizes the act, rationalizes it, and dismisses it, regardless of the harm caused. An Assistant District Attorney does not feel that impersonating a US Marshal, and threatening someone with arrest is a real crime, even when witnessed in public by an off duty police officer. This same ADA is now a criminal judge. (Why yes, she IS a Democrat, how did you know?)
Instead of thinking they were given a reprieve for a moment’s stupidity and learning a lesson, for people like this it becomes validation, emboldening them to escalate their grief-making to new levels. This time it’s a claim that her ex is calling her. Next time the claim is he’s banging on the door at 2 am. Next time he’s breaking windows, and the next time she’s being stabbed on the porch – it seems that multiple exes have an obsession. Time after time, the police find no evidence, or find that she’s faked some aspect of her claim. Have a good night Ma’am. Over 80 police visits in 2 years, several clear false statements and false allegations, some with electronic evidence, and no prosecution.
Jham and Earl – your next call should be to an attorney, and make plans to cover your butt. It’s good that you have got a backbone, but realize that too many people think that every woman that cries on queue was really abused.